Why FFXIV is The Best

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsolen

It is not bad plain and simple. You don't get quality if you keep changing your own lore. Star Wars did that. It created a weird unwieldy EU for a long time with some of it god and some of it really bad. If SE implemented male Viera as a playable race, it would be lowering their standard.

Also, I remember people asking for Ronso or a more bestial race.

You asked for Viera and got it. It's a race where we only ever see the females for lore reasons. As a result, we ended up with male only Ronso to balance it out. It's really not that complicated.

---

I said, perhaps with too many words, that choosing to do two gender-locked races is a breaking a promise, breaching trust, and lowering overall quality and credibility. That in and of itself is a bad thing, especially given how it has all been handled. You would disagree with that?

I am not talking about lore at all. If I'm being honest, I personally didn't want viera to begin with, because they are a race from Ivalice that has been somehow magically transplanted to another world called Hydaelyn because fans like them, where they did not originate from and do not belong, and that sounds pretty against the lore to me. But, lore aside, they went back on their word and are changing something that is a staple of the game, that made it unique, and are releasing something that is lower quality than previously. Full stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsolen

Au Ra can travel, particularly since they have various tribes with different standards and customs. Also Yugiri.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsolen

Even if that were true, they still wouldn't be the WoL/WoD or adventurers at all, since your character would still have to get to that point in the story anyway.

---

Au'ra were introduced in the end of the 2.0 series as an introduction to 3.0. Which means Au'ra would effective have to time travel to become the WoL. Using this as a defense against Male viera is pointless as it's already happened before.

Quote:

---

The is a great chance that is not true anyway, since you just made it up. We might not even see one. If you allow them as WoL/WoD, you also allow them as widespread adventurers at the same time.

---

No, no such assertion is required as the WoL (player character) is a singular existence, every other player from the WoL perspective are pretty much NPC's/adventurer's with the power of the echo.

As to maintaining an experience of rarity then all they have to do is not utilize male viera as NPC's to keep them "rare". And if the next argument is gonna be, but the players themselves would make them not rare then why did they make Duskwights playable considering they're rare to cities, and Miqo'te are supposed to be uncommon to Eorzea.. yet us players seem to defy those facts.

And yet no one complains about any of that, but Viera is where the line is drawn? :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by strawberrycake11

I said, perhaps with too many words, that choosing to do two gender-locked races is a breaking a promise, breaching trust, and lowering overall quality and credibility. That in and of itself is a bad thing, especially given how it has all been handled. You would disagree with that?

I am not talking about lore at all. If I'm being honest, I personally didn't want viera to begin with, because they are a race from Ivalice that has been somehow magically transplanted to another world called Hydaelyn because fans like them, where they did not originate from and do not belong, and that sounds pretty against the lore to me. But, lore aside, they went back on their word and are changing something that is a staple of the game, that made it unique, and are releasing something that is lower quality than previously. Full stop.

---

You say it is lower quality to have genderlock, but I told you why is was the opposite with actual reasoning. Lore. You have to talk about lore, if you want to have a proper counter-argument. These are not the same Viera from Ivalice, but they carry similar lore. If you cannot address that, then you cannot make a proper counter-argument.

We need to do more to help lore, and not bash it in continually. That is a problem this game has from time to time, but it manages it mostly okay overall. It shouldn't be removed, because someone has a political agenda, fetish (despite not knowing what they even look like), or whatever the case is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Au'ra were introduced in the end of the 2.0 series as an introduction to 3.0. Which means Au'ra would effective have to time travel to become the WoL. Using this as a defense against Male viera is pointless as it's already happened before.

No, no such assertion is required as the WoL (player character) is a singular existence, every other player from the WoL perspective are pretty much NPC's/adventurer's with the power of the echo.

As to maintaining an experience of rarity then all they have to do is not utilize male viera as NPC's to keep them "rare". And if the next argument is gonna be, but the players themselves would make them not rare then why did they make Duskwights playable considering they're rare to cities, and Miqo'te are supposed to be uncommon to Eorzea.. yet us players seem to defy those facts.

And yet no one complains about any of that, but Viera is where the line is drawn? :rolleyes:

---

Au Ra had adventurers before that. They just were not a common sight in Eorzea.

Yes, the other characters are not WoL, which was my point. They are adventurers. So those other adventurers being male viera would make no sense.

The other races have some rarity, but they are more common than you think (or you aren't being honest), particularly female miqo'te. Male viera, on the other hand, are not seen at all. To be honest, they really should not have female viera either, but that is a lot more acceptable in terms of numbers and attitudes than male viera.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsolen

Male viera, on the other hand, are not seen at all. To be honest, they really should not have female viera either, but that is a lot more acceptable in terms of numbers and attitudes than male viera.

---

Maybe most of the male Vierra were off adventuring. ;D Really our opinions on it don't matter either way. We don't control the lore and with a few keystrokes from the right person, reasoning can be made to bring the males out of the shadows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsolen

You say it is lower quality to have genderlock, but I told you why is was the opposite with actual reasoning. Lore. You have to talk about lore, if you want to have a proper counter-argument. These are not the same Viera from Ivalice, but they carry similar lore. If you cannot address that, then you cannot make a proper counter-argument.

We need to do more to help lore, and not bash it in continually. That is a problem this game has from time to time, but it manages it mostly okay overall. It shouldn't be removed, because someone has a political agenda, fetish (despite not knowing what they even look like), or whatever the case is.

---

No, I really don't need to address lore. Because telling the people that play your game one thing and then doing the exact opposite of that thing years later is a Bad Thing. That's it! Take everything else out the equation. That sentence could be about literally anything in game, but the promise they broke was the one on gender-locking, so that's what's being addressed. If they cared about the promise they made, AND cared about your so-called lore, they wouldn't have made viera playable in the first place.

But if I absolutely must be dragged into talking about lore, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna repeat myself here: according to lore, viera don't live on Hydaelyn. They're from Ivalice. There was no lore reason for them to be here other than the fact that fans wanted them, and the devs said, okay, they can be here now too. If you can disregard that huge lore jump, you can't tell other people that they can't disregard another because it's lore. That's cherrypicking.

Also, male viera have feet. They can walk. They can pull a Fran and skedaddle right out of the woods if they chose too. They're beings with free will. Just because their society has one idea in mind, according to the lore, does not mean every single individual would follow it. That's not how that works. That's not how people work. Female viera leave the forest very rarely as is. Very, very rarely. Really, if they leave in such small numbers, it wouldn't make sense for them to be playable either, would it? And, personally, I think a singular male viera running away from home to see the world is much more believable than an entire race suddenly existing in another world because they're fan favorites.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsolen

You say it is lower quality to have genderlock, but I told you why is was the opposite with actual reasoning. Lore. You have to talk about lore, if you want to have a proper counter-argument. These are not the same Viera from Ivalice, but they carry similar lore. If you cannot address that, then you cannot make a proper counter-argument.

We need to do more to help lore, and not bash it in continually. That is a problem this game has from time to time, but it manages it mostly okay overall. It shouldn't be removed, because someone has a political agenda, fetish (despite not knowing what they even look like), or whatever the case is.

---

I don't think 'Lore' should ever be a reason in FFXIV - Let's be honest with ourselves here, the FFXIV world building is pretty bad, it doesn't stand on it's own and mostly just pulls from the other titles as it sees fit, and it's usually just side-notes from a writer that people take as holy writing. Half of the time it makes a mess out of the original IP and just uses it as a Themepark with "Let's throw this ol' FF boss in there" as the initial idea, 'world-building' tacked on.

Hrothgar look nothing like Ronso outside of having the OPTIONS of blue fur and a horn, for Themepark reasons. But then Viera are nearly identical in FFXIV to FFXII?

There's so much picking and choosing for sake of argument, it's moot because this game is 90% themepark random bullshit anyway. There's only one actual deciding factor, it's the Dev Team making non-transparent decisions and acting coy about everything they do. Which only causes frustration and confusion. It's likely due to budget, it's pretty clear that they mostly make developmental decisions that front-load a couple of features leaving little else for the rest of their ideas.

They probably started Viera with good intentions, but quickly found out that doubling the work-load with a male character would be atrocious, so they took an easy option and just made a quarter-baked race to try and ease the pain. Which was still likely decided early on. Or maybe it was originally going to be M/F for both and it was absolutely too much work. Why even bother with concept art if a Lead didn't have any intention of working on it at all? Concept art still takes a lot of time and money away from other projects, which they seem to never have. But that's speculation, you could argue that they were only curious. But even then "Male Viera seem weird" is such a strange reason coming from Final Fantasy, not that I actually believe it but it does kinda seem like the JP crowd might have an image problem if that's a legitimate excuse.

I'm not really in the 'upset with gender-locked' crowd, but I get it. You really have to wonder though, how many more times can SE give the "It's too much work" excuse? Maybe stop releasing half-baked content and actually focus on solid and fully tested features? Maybe stop trying to keep the bleeding edge busy with volatile content that dies out just as quickly as it started? I'd be more worried about beginner retention than anything, it's a creep and they still haven't done much about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsolen

Yes, the other characters are not WoL, which was my point. They are adventurers. So those other adventurers being male viera would make no sense.

The other races have some rarity, but they are more common than you think (or you aren't being honest), particularly female miqo'te. Male viera, on the other hand, are not seen at all. To be honest, they really should not have female viera either, but that is a lot more acceptable in terms of numbers and attitudes than male viera.

---

Quote:

---

The Miqo'te are uncommon in Eorzea overall, as their numbers are not great. The Keepers of the Moon are almost entirely located within the Black Shroud, and those who choose to live within Gridania account for a mere ten percent of its overall population.[3][8] There are, however, some Keeper families who remained in Ilsabard, or emigrated to lands other than Eorzea.

---

Quote:

---

As the Duskwight Elezen generally shun civilization, they make up a very small percentage of any of the realm's city-states, if any at all. They are most populous in Gridania, where they make up approximately ten percent of its population.

---

- https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...note-Keepers-3
- - Encyclopædia Eorzea pg. 087

- https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Duskwight
- - Encyclopædia Eorzea pg. 112

Yet Miqo'te make up a sizeable portion of the players. How is that uncommon? It's not. My overall point to what you're trying to proclaim as defenses for no male Viera is that they're not defensible points as there's already instances of them being unreliable in other races.

The mystery of the time traveling Au'ra, the common Miqo'te that by lore are supposed to be uncommon, the Duskwights who shun civilization but appear everywhere due to players.

As I said, no complaints when it comes to those, but Viera is where the line is drawn.

You also dont really realize just how well FFXIV is optimized until you've played other F2P mmos. It's like being stranded in a hot desert suffering from dehydration then coming back to FFXIV and finally coming upon a oasis of ice cold water and shade. It really is a gem in a sea of rubble.

Gotta love when people ignore everything a person says and repeats the same talking points. It really is just like politics.

Male viera do not have adventures. It is lore that one type of au ra is nomadic and the other has very few adventurers. Miqo'te are not rare, much more so the females. Yes implementing the males was a bad idea, but we cannot take that back. Eventhen, they can actually be seen in game, because they do not make themselves that scarce, in comparison to male viera. They also do not die off like male viera in their trials or training. Making more mistakes does not make the game better and male miqo'te would not be nearly as bad as male viera.