Give us girly boys and manly women! Bigger issues than bunny boys?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

While it's true that Au Ra are the only single race with extreme sexual dimorphism, that's where this "pair of locked-gender characters" thing gets messy - because logicallly they're separate races, but functionally they're a matched pair of new character types, and the second-out-of-two "race expansions" that gives us a new dainty female and hulking male character.

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Eh, you can't really make that distinction of the part I bolded, I feel. The reason being is that:
A) We've never seen a male Viera or female Hrothgar and just because the body types are inversed, it does not necessarily mean that the pair match functionally. Lala males and females are virtually indistinguishable from each other apart from the few males we've seen that grow facial hair.
B) Their counterparts could be every bit as "dainty" or "hulking", but we won't know because we haven't seen either of them.

If you're basing that opinion on the perceived status quo, refer to Lalas and the Elezen for a few exceptions.

And I'll digress here for the simple fact that my contention was with the perception that the Viera being elegant (and even then that viewpoint is subjective) and the Hrothgar being burly and fierce (refer to earlier point about subjectivity) was somehow this deeply rooted issue when the other archetypes have been offered a fair shake already. It's almost like the difference between the Au Ra males and females is an affront and that the inverse is a necessity. That is inherently false.

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Originally Posted by Binahel

it's not aboyt dysphoria, it's about sexism.

now go back to school please and read a bit of history. thank you.

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Originally Posted by Mayon

For some players. Including myself, the dysphoria of seeing a hyper masculine race and an overly sexual-looking female race with no counter balances really hurts and makes me feel uncomfortable. Give us some girly boys and some really buff, man-women. Counter balance these races. Give us more options to express ourselves. Please don't limit us.

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Except OP brought up dysphoria. Maybe work on your reading comprehension a little bit before you respond to threads?

I really don't appreciate how people are imposing their preferences as if they were entitled to do so.
"WE NEED THIS, WE WANT THAT".
You already have plenty of choice. You want femboys? Tomboys? SheHulks?
Play Second Life, the Sims or whatever game that allows deep customization.
Smh.
FFXIV is not about sexuality or gender recognition.

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Originally Posted by Nuna

If you're feeling dysphoria due to this game then please go to therapy. Please op, there is something seriously wrong.

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Dysphoria is literally just a "state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction with life". Don't confuse it for anything greater, it's more than reasonable for someone to be uncomfortable with the overly sexualized feminine Viera having no counterbalance but a badly modeled masculine tiger man.

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Originally Posted by Mayon

Stereotyping rabbits

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Whoa whoa whoa. Why do you instantly assume Male Viera are girly? Going off the concept art, I was think the male are brawny akin to male Hyur Highlander. Just because the internet is flooded with cute baby bunnies doesn't mean all rabbits are like that. Being from the American Southwest we have big Jackrabbit that look more like Kangaroos or Antelope than bunnies.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Without going into too much detail, the characteristics you are outlining are all culturally based. There are plenty of documentaries out there, you outside the realm of gender identity which seems to always be the topic of discussion these days, which analyse social archetypes in modern western society. Keep in mind what is deemed masculine and feminine does in fact vary by culture and over history.

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Those archetypes being cultural doesn't mean they have to be abandoned or fought against. There is nothing wrong with adhering to and liking the cultural norms of the time and place one was born in, just like there is nothing wrong with the opposite either.

People have failed to explain why a game company shouldn't design their game to look the way the devs find appealing or what they think the customers will find appealing. Whatever was considered masculine/feminine/attractive in previous centuries is not relevant, because long dead generations are not subscribed to this game. We are.

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Originally Posted by ScarboroughFairy

It's almost like the difference between the Au Ra males and females is an affront and that the inverse is a necessity. That is inherently false.

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I should be clear that I'm not asking for an "inverted Au Ra" race to make up for it.

Just that they don't feel like they have to shy away from having both male and female of one race being delicate OR a race where both are large and strong.


I guess I feel like, if I was tasked with adding a new race to an existing roster, my instinct would be to look at the other characters and think "where are the gaps?" - and in this case I probably would have aimed for something like Elezen without the awkward features that people tend to complain about. (Though I liked the concept art version too - subverting the "bunny girl" stereotype with the strong warrior bunny man.)

Whoever is controlling the race design process doesn't seem to think that way. Between Au Ra and now Hrothgar/Viera, it feels like any ideas might get filtered through "yes, but females should be dainty and males should be tough" and things get shifted towards the same stereotypes instead of finding a unique place that needs filling.

I like a variety of designs, and I like to see unusual and interesting characters (more than being after any specific body type). I was hoping to see that stereotype-subverting bunny warrior implemented, and disappointed that the should-also-be-stereotype-subverting female warriors got reduced to flirty lingerie models in their introduction video.

I'm not keen on the exact design of Hrothgar, but I don't mind the idea of a beast race, and I think it's a pity that there won't be a female version. But then they're in an odd position where the males may only exist in the first place because they were so desperate to avoid male Viera - whatever those reasons really were.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I should be clear that I'm not asking for an "inverted Au Ra" race to make up for it.

Just that they don't feel like they have to shy away from having both male and female of one race being delicate OR a race where both are large and strong.

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Refer to both Lalafell and Roegadyn.

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I guess I feel like, if I was tasked with adding a new race to an existing roster, my instinct would be to look at the other characters and think "where are the gaps?"

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This implies that there are gaps that need to be filled in a bid to be unique and all-inclusive--which is a neverending struggle in and of itself. You're never going to be able to include everything people might enjoy.

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Whoever is controlling the race design process doesn't seem to think that way. Between Au Ra and now Hrothgar/Viera, it feels like any ideas might get filtered through "yes, but females should be dainty and males should be tough" and things get shifted towards the same stereotypes instead of finding a unique place that needs filling.

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There's that word again.

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I like a variety of designs, and I like to see unusual and interesting characters (more than being after any specific body type). I was hoping to see that stereotype-subverting bunny warrior implemented, and disappointed that the should-also-be-stereotype-subverting female warriors got reduced to flirty lingerie models in their introduction video.

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Yet, they are literally, as of right now, the only race to introduce this type of concept. Maybe some of us was waiting to seen this concept executed: slender, elegant, warrior females who, by their cultural standards, see nothing wrong with the attire that they don. You can lambast the devs all day for passing them off as "sex toys for men to ogle at", but you forget one thing: lesbians exist, too. I would know, I am one.

But people take offense to that like a bunch of Mormon housewives. In a game where the starting racial attire has been practical and arguably conservative, the moment it deviates from the norm with the introduction of Viera, the shit immediately hits the fan. Dunno about you, but that sounds a lot like slutshaming to me. Literally no one is allowed to be sexy.

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Originally Posted by ScarboroughFairy

Yet, they are literally, as of right now, the only race to introduce this type of concept. Maybe some of us was waiting to seen this concept executed: slender, elegant, warrior females who, by their cultural standards, see nothing wrong with the attire that they don. You can lambast the devs all day for passing them off as "sex toys for men to ogle at", but you forget one thing: lesbians exist, too. I would know, I am one.

But people take offense to that like a bunch of Mormon housewives. In a game where the starting racial attire has been practical and arguably conservative, the moment it deviates from the norm with the introduction of Viera, the shit immediately hits the fan. Dunno about you, but that sounds a lot like slutshaming to me. Literally no one is allowed to be sexy.

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That exaclty the point I've never understood some antifeminist (or antigender) LGBT activists.

That sounds weird for me, who is straight hetero, to hear antifeminist LGBT claming against feminity or manly when, both, some gays or some lesbians actually like manly looks or feminine sexy looks (remember Ronaldo or Beckham are considered as gay icons).

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

That exaclty the point I've never understood some antifeminist (or antigender) LGBT activists.

That sounds weird for me, who is straight hetero, to hear antifeminist LGBT claming against feminity or manly when, both, some gays or some lesbians actually like manly looks or feminine sexy looks (remember Ronaldo or Beckham are considered as gay icons).

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Tbh I’m utterly confused by the screaming by all this on the forums lately. Just happens that I enjoy playing a masculine guy and suddenly that’s a horrible thing.