I WANNA DANCE!

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I think it's less hate for healers getting new content and more people don't like playing Healer and want new content.

It's the same thing with Gunbreaker... No small number of people wanted it to be a DPS class because they're DPS mains.

People want shiny new content for their preferred role. Tanks and Healers just happen to be not the most popular roles...

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I'm referring specifically to those that would take delight in the disappointment/distress that would be caused to healer mains, not those wanting a new class to play (The gunbreaker threads were a lot more of the latter, "I want to play it but I don't play tanks" not "I want to see the tank forums up in arms")

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

You don't necessarily do a ton of damage as a healer though

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A healer can potentially do almost as much dps as a Tank. Most decent healers will average about 3500+ DPS, that's nothing to scoff at. Imagine both healers doing this. That's a 5th DPS right there.

This is not really directed at you, but I feel like way too many people just heard someone at some point say "healer damage isn't important" and ran with it without looking into it themselves. Healer DPS may not make or break a fight, but to say it's insignificant is flat out wrong.

Also the idea that SCH is praised only for it's utility is slightly untrue. Chain strategem certainly is good, but it's the SCHs crazy high personal DPS on top of it's utility that makes them so desirable.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

A healer can potentially do almost as much dps as a Tank.

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I guess this depends a bit on what you define as "almost," but unless you have a rather contrived run setup (tanks doing a lot of self healing at the cost of their own DPS, for example), healers aren't going to get that close to tanks. They'll always do considerably more.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Healer DPS may not make or break a fight, but to say it's insignificant is flat out wrong.

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Well, it very much can and does make or break a fight. Particularly when progging stuff like Savage when not everyone is maxxed out in gear yet. Missing 6k~8k combined healer DPS very much can and does mean hitting enrage. Missing healer DPS probably does mean hitting enrage on Final Omega even with i400 gear.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Also the idea that SCH is praised only for it's utility is slightly untrue. Chain strategem certainly is good, but it's the SCHs crazy high personal DPS on top of it's utility that makes them so desirable.

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All that is true, but also: the second strongest AoE regen in the game, the strongest single target regen in the game (480 potency/tick vs the next highest at 150 potency/tick), and free heal spam in between those - all coming from an NPC that keeps going while the SCH DPSs.

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

It’s going to be bad if it’s a Melee Healer, they better give some throwing daggers and make it a Healer/Ranged Physical inspired job. Healers have always been the first line of defense to do mechanics and there are some mechanics that flat or require healers to break away from the boss more so than any other role. If these guys gotta be in melee range to do damage. They might as well just dance out of the party

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They could always do what WoW did with Monks. Which is make them effectively mDPS in terms of mechanic targeting.

Probably would annoy the other healer having to deal with twice the amount of mechanics though... (At least, for ones that would require the Healer to move in a way that would be detrimental to a melee healer)

That's IF they even make it a melee healer. Since, my initial thought is how to make a melee Dancer that wouldn't end up looking so similar to Monk? (As well as recalling several Moogle dances in addition to the likes of the Sundrop/Moondrop dances that have effects that didn't require melee range...)

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This is not really directed at you, but I feel like way too many people just heard someone at some point say "healer damage isn't important" and ran with it without looking into it themselves. Healer DPS may not make or break a fight, but to say it's insignificant is flat out wrong.

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Yeah, "Healer damage isn't important" is flat out wrong.

The correct statement is "Healer damage is less important than other roles" - Referring to mechanical trade offs made by players. The most common example is surrounding Tanks and their stances. Healers have the lowest base DPS of any role in the game, so they lose less when they have to pause to do something else (Such as heal or cast a Raise) than another role would when playing more defensively such as a Tank using their defensive stance for extra survivability (At the cost of significant damage)

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Also the idea that SCH is praised only for it's utility is slightly untrue. Chain strategem certainly is good, but it's the SCHs crazy high personal DPS on top of it's utility that makes them so desirable.

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I mean, their nutty shields from Critlo are nothing to sneeze at either... Especially when they get them at a time to cheese a mechanic with Emergency Tactics...

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I'm referring specifically to those that would take delight in the disappointment/distress that would be caused to healer mains, not those wanting a new class to play (The gunbreaker threads were a lot more of the latter, "I want to play it but I don't play tanks" not "I want to see the tank forums up in arms")

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Part (Or most) of that comes down to it being a bit of a meme for SE to make a stupid decision and then for a particular section of the playerbase to get really mad.

Such as the most recent case being the whole BLU as a Limited Job ordeal...

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

You don't necessarily do a ton of damage as a healer though anyway, so your dps doesn't hold a ton of weight in the first place. Personally speaking, I don't see how that's much of a problem since most times you're losing dps by healing someone (multiple times) or raising your newly adopted child (multiple times x infinity), so breaking away like a monk needing to do so to perform a mechanic isn't as big a hindrance to the party output as it would be for said monk to do so (or ninja or whoever).

On the other side, if dancer plays out essentially a melee bard that heals, I don't see them being used for "super damage output", more there for buffing like how people see scholars. (That was literally what I read last night in a byakko group who basically said "a sch, crits for days breh!")

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Except Healers at the highest level do about a combined dps of 10k and on average 4K a piece between the 2 of them. This is how much damage dps was doing at the start of SB which means that healers damage definitely accounts for a lot of raid dps.

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

Except Healers at the highest level do about a combined dps of 10k and on average 4K a piece between the 2 of them. This is how much damage dps was doing at the start of SB which means that healers damage definitely accounts for a lot of raid dps.

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Pretty easy to give them a blade dance combo dps that’s ranged... don’t see a need to make it melee.., just have them dance and it drop some blades lol

Heals that apply buffs that apply debuffs sounds dancerish...

Dancer doesn't have to have ranged DPS to stay competitive. It doesn't matter if I only get up close to the boss every 15 or 30 seconds to DPS, so long as the potencies for the attacks I use deal incredible damage. It'd make the class more about Burst Damage than sustainable damage.

Not saying they'd do that, but its a way it could work. Just calibrate them to be used x often for y damage.

I'm certainly looking forward to Dancer, assuming it is, in fact, the other job and a healer.

I actually really do hope it's melee-based. I don't care a whit for fussing over meta healer DPS numbers, but just having a melee healer will go a long way towards making it have a unique identity. Of course, I'm hoping it has some interesting and unique heal-based gameplay aspects as well (maybe even melee-range heals), but just being melee and not using a cast bar would be a very fresh change of pace for healers.

Though it's a totally random comparison, I'm hoping Dancer is reminiscent of Rakan from League of Legends. I haven't played that game in ages, but that champion's dive in/out, high-mobility support playstyle was really engaging, and I'd love to see something similar put into FF14. It certainly fits the "dancing" aesthetic.

But they may end up going the classic FF songstress route, with BRD-style party buffs.

Well of course their will be balance issues at the start but it well eventually even itself out i think.
While i have not done as much healing as all of you i really really hope Dancer will be a healer and not a dps.
A healer that does damage however (melee i hope) i am cool with:)

I don't think S-E will make a melee DPS for now. All healer role actions were made with the fact os all healers are casters to begin with.