"Just use True North problem solved"

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

This is mostly a rant, but I hate how people always tell melees "JUST USE TRUE NORTH YA DINGUS" as if it's the answer to every positional problem.

Yeah True North is amazing for allow positional procs where we are forced into situations where we cannot get our positionals, which happens a lot! Everyone seems to think it's on a 15 second CD and it's always available, and if not use it whenever melee ask for an adjustment.

Folks don't realize 1) 150 sec CD 2) Melees plan out specific spots when to use TN during the fight. Being such a long CD we have limited uses of it during the fight.

To be clear, I'm upset at True North, I'm just upset that tanks/mages always yell at melee to use True North for every mechanic, as if we weren't using it already to optimized our positional procs.

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Who doesn't love these tanks? For many tanks you would need TN without any cooldown or get rid of positionals completly. :rolleyes:

https://media.giphy.com/media/6jO349v4edkLm/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

They should remove the kenki positional from SAM and make it always generate Kenki. This similar to how DRG used to only get the Heavy Thrust bonus if used from the flank.

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It does still generate kenki if you miss a positional. It's just reduced to 5 instead of 10. The amount lost is equal to 1/5th of a Shinten, which is 60 potency, so it's about in line to what other jobs lose with missed positionals.

I agree with others about reduce True North’s cooldown.
That’s why we need to plan ahead which part of the fight we should use the skill.

To be honest, I don't feel reducing True North will help as much as making positionals easier to land in the first place for the classes that have it the worst, which is mostly MNK with DRG being second. NIN & SAM both have ample time between each positional and and can adapt their rotation to compensate for a fight.

That said, reducing it to 2 minutes would align it with every other TA at least, which I think would be fine. Shooting for anything below 90s would make me question why anyone would decide on that instead of asking why their class has positionals at all in the first place.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I feel like True North should have a lower cooldown.

Melee don't even have any tangible benefits over ranged to compensate for needing to account for positionals.

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Agreed. Between the awkward positioning many fights this tier enforce and the sheer downtime, melee get especially screwed. If they did significantly higher damage, that would be one thing but currently DRG and NIN are the lowest. I think 80-90 seconds would be much better. Even 120 would be alright as mechanics tend to have two minute intervals. At least those where you'd need to potentially lose positionals.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

My piece of advice about positionals is: don't think of it as missed positionals = gimped DPS. Think of it as correct positionals=bonus damage. This is especially true when you start raiding savage and there are mechanics that force you into positions where its impossible to hit rear/side (like Midgardsrmr's Ahk Morns, or Omega's Larboard/Starboard cannons). Sometimes it's impractical or impossible to hit your positionals, but SE has narrowed the gap between a correct positional and a failed positional such that it's usually only a 20-30 potency gap instead of 100+. Yes, you still want to try to hit positionals to maximize DPS but fights are also tuned that you can clear without hitting positionals.

I see it as bonus rather than a necessity. If it were "necessary" as opposed to "bonus", SE would time the mechanics in raids that require you to stand in front of the boss with melees' True North cooldowns. But, that isn't the case, as anyone who has done raided can tell you, there are phases and mechanics where you can't get to the flank or rear.

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Those numbers add up over time though. 40 potency may not seem like much but 200 is essentially dropping Impulse Drive. Furthermore, melee are already punished by mechanics that force disengagement. O10S and O12S are particularly bad as melee DPS can be completed screwed both in positionals and uptime with minimal ways to compensate. Range and Casters don't suffer either problem while doing more damage than half the melee. As noted above, NIN and DRG are the two weakest jobs right now.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy finding creative ways to sneak in my positionals. But there are numerous points this tier where you're just going to lose damage and can't do anything about it.

And it is fixed in 4.5

90 seconds is indeed short enough to avoid all of the moments in Omega savage where you might be forced to ignore positionals (Pantokrator in OS11 and Hello World in OS12 are the main ones that come to mind).