Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

((Copy and pasted from my Reddit post))
With how apparent the majority dislike the entire premise of limited jobs and the mishandling of BLU, it got me thinking on the why it ended up like this.
It's clear the biggest reason it's a limited job is because they absolutely did not want to sacrifice the class fantasy of what they imagined a BLU to be.
But at the same time, why not both?

People keep saying "It's not doable! The only way for BLU to be in, is only if it's separate and solo if we want to preserve the core identity.
But it is! It's very doable!
Why not have unique quests that say "Find x in y" and have it be an actual duty every time for moves? The common response is "That'd be a lot of work" but it's less work than what this job currently is.
Or better yet, maybe incorporate the idea of 'learning abilities from monsters' into the gameplay. What about a set of learn stacks that you gain more of from enemies near you performing unique skills? Every skill cast earns you a stack on top of your own generated stacks from time or combos?

The class fantasy would be perfectly preserved while making sure people can actually play it in content.
I find it lazy and short sighted to tell people that it has to be this way and is, in fact, the ONLY way. That's both on the developers and players. If things can be better, why not? Why NOT make everyone happy?

Found this post on reddit that pretty much summed up my feelings.

"Opinion: FFXIVs Blue Mage is Fantastic, but not in FFXIV

As a long time blue mage fan, from back in FFV even to the more obscure version like gun mage in X2, I truly do love this iteration of blue mage. The team did a faithful job of creating an experience that pulls from the jobs varied skillset and unique qualities. I mean it's the aesthetic of V and Tactics Advanced, combined with the customization of XI, learning by seeing like Strago in VI. I would be ecstatic to see this in any Final Fantasy game. And therein lies the problem.

Announcing the newest DLC for the latest entry in Square-Enix's prolific RPG series, FFXV: The Masked Carnival! Join Prince Noctis as he follows the path of the mysterious Blue King, a forgotten ruler who used not royal weaponry, but the skills of fiends themselves to fell his enemies. Discover, hunt, and master dozens of unique classic Final Fantasy monster abilities and use them to sow destruction on the battlefield. Combine them in countless combinations and utilize your cunning and creativity to overcome challenges not seen before. Finally, use your newfound powers to overcome the trials of the mysterious Masked Carnival, where your skills with the Blue will be tested to their utmost in challenges specifically designed for them.

That sounds just as good, right? Like hell yeah, I'll jump right back into FFXV for that.

But it's not in FFXV, it's in FFXIV. We all love the game. Enough to be here talking about it at least. FFXIV, which offers an experience unique to the rest of the series, primarily through its genre. A game whose high point and most developed content are dungeon diving with 4 other intrepid adventurers, facing down primal with 7 other brave heroes in battles of spectacle that are unmatched in anything else in the genre, where you and 23 other adventurers engage in challenges that should be impossible alone. It has a wonderful story that is punctuated and capstoned by these experiences. For me, the adrenaline when barely clearing A3S seconds from the final cascade was a great memory. But that won't be possible as Blue Mage. And that sucks. We finally got Blue Mage in Final Fantasy XIV, but we didn't get Blue Mage IN Final Fantasy XIV. We got it attached.

People will argue it couldn't be implemented in this game, but that's not really true. Summoner barely resembles its classic incarnation, and Samurais central moon, blizzard, flower mechanics have more in common with Romancing Saga than the classic heavily armored gil tossing shogun of Final Fantasy. They're still, in my eyes, fun and faithful renditions of the the class. Blue mage could have been the same.

At the end of the day I'll still play Blue mage, and I'm sure it will be fun. Really fun. But when raid time comes around and I have to change to a different job I feel less of a connection with, when I stand in front of the next larger than life raid boss and wonder what awaits me, when we finally do that final assault on the citadel of Garlemald and the story comes to a climax, it'll be bittersweet. I think I'll be thinking the same thing I am now. It wasn't worth the cost of losing the experience of FFXIV as a Blue Mage. Because we can't get that opportunity anywhere else."

I understand it's most likely too far into production to do any major changes to BLU at this time, resources spent and all that, I like the concept of BLU but I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth from the Limit Job system, is this going to be a new thing for future jobs like Beastmaster, Puppetmaster because they don't fit the group synergy "meta" we got going in XIV?

I do not understand why they couldn't simply made BLU learn monster actions from job quests, "1000 Needles" would've been your standard AoE with x potency like any other AoE action. They talked about how Level 5 Death would be too overpowered, why not make it into one of those skills that you can activate under 20% HP etc.

I feel they tried to stay too faithful if that makes sense, when they could give it the most popular monster actions for it to learn through job quests and just balance potency of those action like any other job and make it a caster type anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YakushiHinata

I do not understand why they couldn't simply made BLU learn monster actions from job quests, "1000 Needles" would've been your standard AoE with x potency like any other AoE action. They talked about how Level 5 Death would be too overpowered, why not make it into one of those skills that you can activate under 20% HP etc.

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Because than, it's a Caster DD like Black Mage and Red Mage with the name Blue Mage, nothing more, and they want it to be like the classic Blue Mage from the old Games, battle Monsters and try to find out if you can learn skills from them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valor_C

Because than, it's a Caster DD like Black Mage and Red Mage with the name Blue Mage, nothing more, and they want it to be like the classic Blue Mage from the old Games, battle Monsters and try to find out if you can learn skills from them.

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By this logic, there should never be any new jobs in the standard formula, as they would only be like other jobs that currently exist.
"We wanted DNC, but to preserve it's identity it HAD to be a minigame"
"Well why not make it fit into 14's combat systems?"
"Then it'd be the same as any old healer!"
Or the gunblade class, what if it's not a tank or dps, what if it's only used in a single instance around garlemald.
Wouldn't that stink?
Well it's apparently better than the alternative, as it would only be "another" tank or "another" melee dps.

To imply that Square is incapable of making another caster play different, like they did with RDM, is disingenuous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flatopia

To imply that Square is incapable of making another caster play different, like they did with RDM, is disingenuous.

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I'd genuinely like to hear how you'd make a blue mage caster that didn't feel like a one-button wonder.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

I'd genuinely like to hear how you'd make a blue mage caster that didn't feel like a one-button wonder.

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Maybe incorporate the idea of 'learning abilities from monsters' into the gameplay. What about a set of learn stacks that you gain more of from enemies near you performing unique skills? Every skill cast earns you a stack on top of your own generated stacks from time or combos with spells?
Maybe make them the most OGCD focused of the spellcasters
Or maybe have a focus on having plenty of instant cast spells alongside the hard cast spells. Things like that.

Personally, I would prefer incorporating the mechanic of learning into the core gameplay like that, making them feel flavorful and useful and fun to play.

Yet, hilariously. Because of one idea they introduced and tried to innovate with and used as a great marketing idea to expand and bring more people into this world so they can give us even MORE content. Half the community has already passed judgement on so no matter what your experience will be diminished because you have already decreed this "isn't a real job".. "oh I can't use it in raid or end game so there's no point in it."... "fake job." when you could just say.. "Hey I'm nervous about what they are doing with this "limited system" and how they are implementing blue mage.. but the dev team has treated us pretty well so I guess I can give it the old college try and keep an open mind and see if i'll enjoy it at all." rather than throwing a temper tantrum and demanding them to go with this "end game friendly, meta blue mage" you all are clamoring for.

This is a knee jerk reaction at best, if you truly take a step back and try to see it from the dev teams point of view.. We are gaining a whole lot more than we are losing with blue mage being implemented this way. Yes we lost yet another Caster DPS.. which oh wait with the deletion of TP is going to already be crowded in raid groups now because.. OH right.. Bard and machinist are now in direct competition with casters for the ranged slots.. 5 ranged jobs.. 2 ranged slots.. machinist is getting reworked and TP being removed means Foe's requiem is going to change which will shake up the bard meta.

Blue Mage may not be what everyone was expecting or hoping for, but i'll give the dev team the credit they deserve and keep an open mind about this "limited job" system and enjoy playing a traditional blue mage as a nice change of pace from the tome grind, raiding, and relic grind. a new and innovative piece of content meant for everyone to enjoy. If they could get over their pessimism and just enjoy the game for being a GAME.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

I'd genuinely like to hear how you'd make a blue mage caster that didn't feel like a one-button wonder.

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Challenge accepted

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

I'd genuinely like to hear how you'd make a blue mage caster that didn't feel like a one-button wonder.

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To begin with, I don't think that Blue Mage should have been a caster. A lot of Blue Mage's "spells" are primarily the Blue Mage channelling something physical, and really, I think that it's best imagined as a Job as a melee DPS or Tank. Also keep in mind that these aren't all concepts that are meant to go together under one general Job concept, but are mostly separate concepts of parts of the Job.

Some random concepts that I've come up with:

Ifrit's Searing Wind as an on-boss debuff. The debuff would increase damage dealt on the target while also exploding for AOE damage at the end.

As a DPS, Blue Mage could have a reoccurring gimmick throughout its rotation based on its HP - using Self-Destruct as a damage-dealing cooldown like Fleche, but also placing the Blue Mage at 1 HP. The Blue Mage could combo this with ???? (let's imagine it as a reverse Assassinate, only usable when the user's HP is below around 70%, with a short cooldown) and then following that up with a Vampire that has the same cooldown timer as Self-Destruct. ???? acting like this would also create a similar, but different mechanic to Samurai's Third Eye - part of the skill of Blue Mage would be actively paying attention to outgoing damage and using ???? while you still can. There'd also be skill in knowing when to delay your Self-Destructs into Vampires for free ???? so that you don't kill yourself.

Death Claw as the execute, like Assassinate.

Missile as the Job's ranged attack, whether that be a Tomahawk equivalent or more of a Piercing Talon equivalent. An interesting idea is that it could have a faster global cooldown attached to it, which would make Blue Mage have a better ranged option than other Jobs - paying tribute to its mage aspect - and also being pretty fun with it just spamming missiles when needed for uptime.

Level 100 Death as the melee Limit Break 3 - not actually inflicting Death, of course, but in any situation when a Limit Break gets used, this is about the effect. Having a Grim Reaper show up for it, with the scythe's slash being when the damage strikes the boss.

Goblin Punch as the basic combo starter. Its combo branches could all be various Blue Magic spells from games prior or various actions used by enemies in this game - Magic Hammer being a great example of a solid combo finisher.

White Wind and Mighty Guard could easily be party utilities that Blue Mage would carry, akin to Monk's Mantra, though support abilities that are more generally useful than, say, Red Mage's Raises. White Wind in particular would have to have a pretty notable cooldown if it really was based on your HP (it could basically delete a lot of Raid-wides), but Mighty Guard could just be a "decrease damage taken" buff like Passage of Arms that doesn't require you to stand in any perpetual AOE, which would be pretty sick.