BRD/MCH having their own piercing?

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

It matters from balance perspective. You have to think in terms of how much dps a class is bringing into the party. DRG doing piercing means that each Ranged class in the party adds up to the amount of dps provided by the DRG. If Ranged classes could provide their own piercing debuff, that would mean that their personal dps would go up by 5% even without DRGs, so while DRGs' personal dps would be unaffected, their total provided dps would go down by 5-10%. DRG would become a dead class and nobody would want them.

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Hardly. They have Litany and Sight to provide raid buffs, which is still better than what SAM/MNK bring right now. Their DPS would be adjusted to compensate and I'm sure BRD/MCH potencies would be changed too. No way SE would make that kind of change without adjusting the numbers.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

So why is no one bringing up the real issue here. Only Monk has the blunt damage debuff, how are our poor casters, besides RDM supposed to deal good damage, lol

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Wait, why "besides RDM"? Are you implying that RDM, the weakest caster with mediocre/weak support, is in any way strong? It's in some cases weaker than bard and gives less party support.

EDIT: A pic of me
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...5331549061.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

It matters from balance perspective. You have to think in terms of how much dps a class is bringing into the party. DRG doing piercing means that each Ranged class in the party adds up to the amount of dps provided by the DRG. If Ranged classes could provide their own piercing debuff, that would mean that their personal dps would go up by 5% even without DRGs, so while DRGs' personal dps would be unaffected, their total provided dps would go down by 5-10%. DRG would become a dead class and nobody would want them.

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If they simply took piercing away or gave it to Bard/Machinist without tweaking Dragoon, yes. A simple solution to that is buff Dragoon's damage output to compensate or reduce Litany's recast time. It's certainly better than having two jobs utterly dependent on another for a good chunk of their damage.

The devs like to carry on about job viability and how players shouldn't lock out jobs because everything can clear but synergies like piercing only ensure statics will often favour recruiting a Dragoon over everything else if they run Bard and/or Machinist.

Taking piercing from Dragoon and giving it to bard and machinist sounds quite good.
It would further distinguish them as support jobs and dragoon as a selfish DPS, which would probably need a slight potency buff to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Wait, why "besides RDM"? Are you implying that RDM, the weakest caster with mediocre/weak support, is in any way strong? It's in some cases weaker than bard and gives less party support.

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It's "besides RDM" because hitting enemies with your staff or book as a caster does blunt damage ;)

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Originally Posted by Jandor

It's "besides RDM" because hitting enemies with your staff or book as a caster does blunt damage ;)

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Oh. ...OH.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

That flew so far over my head I'm ashamed

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Oh. ...OH.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

That flew so far over my head I'm ashamed

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Lol, I was gonna say. When I read your comment, I was like, wait are they for real.

FYI, for anyone else who may be confused, RDM deals slashing damage for their auto attacks.

Jobs that bring their own vulnerabilities have that factored into their final personal tallies. They are balanced around always having it.

Jobs that don't are not balanced around this notion. This is why Machinist and Bard seem so ridiculously out of tune.

But what's the point in a vulnerability debuff that only buffs yourself or jobs that don't need it? you may as well just remove the debuff and increase potencies at that point.

The point of those debuffs is to empower other jobs other than yourself. Not to empower yourself. It's to allow you to bring something useful to the group table as a DPS. Adding this to BRD removes part of DRG's utility attractiveness. BRD offers other group benefits besides this debuff.

Same reason BLM could come with a magic vulnerability debuff (in exchange for lower potencies), in order to be a more attractive group member and have some utility that is different to RDM or SMN.

Glass half empty.

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Originally Posted by Rathael

But what's the point in a vulnerability debuff that only buffs yourself or jobs that don't need it? you may as well just remove the debuff and increase potencies at that point.

The point of those debuffs is to empower other jobs other than yourself. Not to empower yourself. It's to allow you to bring something useful to the group table as a DPS. Adding this to BRD removes part of DRG's utility attractiveness. BRD offers other group benefits besides this debuff.

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Not necessarily true.
These debuffs aren't always able to be kept up perpetually. Having two jobs who can inflict and utilise a certain debuff increases the duration that debuff is active and effective, providing they coordinate.

Provide ARC and MCH with say a 10s debuff on a 30s cooldown that inflicts piercing, especially useful for MCHs burst window, and Dissembowl will still be benefit for when the debuff is on cooldown.
Now a DRG still benefits a MCH, but is not essential for it.