Idea: Class split idea for all jobs

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

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Though I should mention that this will never happen because split jobs are terrible and cause a lot of problems for the devs (they have said as much)

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Anything is terrible and problematic when you implement it terribly and problematically.

Should we likewise say that or seamless swimming is impossible or that swimming in any form is inherently clunky and unable to be meaningfully integrated into anything else, just because it was designed as such here?

Should we say that movement skills are inherently laggy by concept, just because Yaten, Repelling Shot, Elusive, and our various charges are slow to adjust where the servers consider our characters are located?

I say we need to quit speaking on behalf of the game developers. We are the consumers and we should ask what we want for instead of just shooting down other requests because "Game designers said it won't happen". If there is a request that is big enough they will figure out how to make it work (housing is a perfect example as they continuously said we can't add more wards and boom they did). Whether it is equipping the job crystal changes the traits/specific base actions.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I say we need to quit speaking on behalf of the game developers. We are the consumers and we should ask what we want for instead of just shooting down other requests because "Game designers said it won't happen". If there is a request that is big enough they will figure out how to make it work (housing is a perfect example as they continuously said we can't add more wards and boom they did). Whether it is equipping the job crystal changes the traits/specific base actions.

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No, they won't listen to the community for things like this. Releasing a new branch is the same as releasing a new job except that you have tons of contrains and due to the game engine being what it is, the less things your jobs share, the better. It also prevent original design unless you're willing to put triats every level changing your entire tool kit. Look at RDM idea before we had HW with "stand alone jobs".
Most people were like "oh you would need Conjurer and Thaumaturg lv 30 and then you'd be able to cast all the element." and yet no one had any remotely interesting idea when it comes to gameplay. The RDM we currently have is very unique in every possible way compared to what you could do by taking all the low level skills from WHM and BLM. Not even talking about all the issue regarding balance giving RDM access to medica. (almost every group would replace a healer with a RDM). I mean yes we could argue 'but traits would change RDM spells so that it would be what is is now". Sounds nice, let's give the RDM 1 trait for every spells he has to turn it into what it currently is.

This is why SMN got their DoTs upgraded to a new rank for instance, so that if SMN needs a DoT buff, it won't buff the SCH at the same time)

If you take a look at summoner, beside the core mechanic of Etherflux. They share nearly 0 skills at max level.
Beside Bane, RuinII, Rouse and Shadowflare and arguably Rez, these two jobs have no regular skill to use in common. I didn't even list Energy Drain because only the SCH actually uses it. Summon just have the same icons, they don't summon the same pets.
I would'nt be surprised that at lv80 SMN/SCH get upgraded version of some of these spells making them share 0 skills in the end. (beside Rez)


They do not want to do it because it brings nothing to the game and just makes everything more complicated. The former poster listed enough jobs for 5 expansions. The only difference between his jobs idea and actual new job would be that they share some skills until 50 which would gradually be upgraded to newer rank to end up having 0 shared skills

This is not toward you but many people compare what other games did.
Pointing at games like WoW or Rift having many specs is ridiculous because WoW nearly destroyed the entire concept of specilisation.
You do not specialise anymore.
You choose a branch and beside "some" of your utility spells, your entire toolkit is different. (Like SMN and SCH except that there are much more utility things in WoW)
Rift has a tons of talent tree yet, as everyone predicted from day one, there is only a few viable spec and that's it. Having over 9999 different talent combination is useless if 9990 are useless. (This is also why they don't include a talent tree, there's no point to put choice if everyone makes the same choice. This is especially true for dps (a bit less for healers))

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

stuff.

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You just proved my point. There are creative ways to do things and less creative ways. I mainly get exhausted by people shooting down others ideas because "Devs won't do it". Honestly it is the lamest and most unproductive response.

Also I wouldn't say RDM is unique and if anything it is quite bland. I would also say the same about SAM, except SAM has bigger hits (big hits are fun). If you look at the core principles of almost all the DPS it is Dots, Self Buff, Target Debuff, other stuff and repeat. Sure they may have different names. We have locked combos on almost all classes which is why MCH was so refreshing in HW. Sure it was difficult but it was the most unique class to play. MNK in ARR and still today is very unique with abilities being stance based. Because instead of having ABC and DEF combos you could do AEC, AEF, etc, etc. DRG they made more interesting in SB but other than that everything is kind of meh. Nothing really new or unique. The class system was unique and it was fresh. Maybe because I am a FF11 fan where subclasses ruled the day.

Fun idea, but considering the developers struggle to make 2 jobs per expansion, I somehow don’t see them upping that number to 14 per expansion

The developer team has already stated they will never do another job split like they did with SMN/SCH.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I say we need to quit speaking on behalf of the game developers. We are the consumers and we should ask what we want for instead of just shooting down other requests because "Game designers said it won't happen".

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Except with regards to job splits, the developers have said repeatedly they had a lot of issues with the SMN/SCH split, and how hard it was to balance the two. It will never happen again, because they literally said so.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Except with regards to job splits, the developers have said repeatedly they had a lot of issues with the SMN/SCH split, and how hard it was to balance the two. It will never happen again, because they literally said so.

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This is sadly true. The logic to this is like complaining that a paper document wasn't sufficiently waterproof when left in a sink, so we should stop using paper altogether, but they have absolutely said that based on the SMN/SCH's failure (as per its blatantly errant) execution, never again will we see a job split.

RIP all possible decent implementations -- numerous were your lore- and mechanics-cohesive possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Pointing at games like WoW or Rift having many specs is ridiculous because WoW nearly destroyed the entire concept of specialization.

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This is patently false. WoW's specialization distinction has only increased over the years. The newest expansion will be the first turn away from increased distinction, and only to a minor extent. What has diminished is solely hybridization via talents, and even that isn't true of all specs.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I say we need to quit speaking on behalf of the game developers. We are the consumers and we should ask what we want for instead of just shooting down other requests because "Game designers said it won't happen". If there is a request that is big enough they will figure out how to make it work (housing is a perfect example as they continuously said we can't add more wards and boom they did). Whether it is equipping the job crystal changes the traits/specific base actions.

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We the consumers have been asking for a lot of things but if they strictly refuse to do it, it won't happen. There are examples of things getting changed or implemented but there are also more changes or implements that we've been asking for years that haven't gotten done.

Rule #1: The customer is very rarely, if ever, right.

If there's a big enough request for McDonald's to function like Subway, it's pretty unlikely they're going to change their entire identity to satisfy that.

Just because lots of people request something doesn't make them entitled to the thing. Have you seen their responses to requests for parsers?

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Rule #1: The customer is very rarely, if ever, right.

If there's a big enough request for McDonald's to function like Subway, it's pretty unlikely they're going to change their entire identity to satisfy that.

Just because lots of people request something doesn't make them entitled to the thing. Have you seen their responses to requests for parsers?

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There is so much fallacy in everything you have said. McDonald's has changed their identity many times. They used to make burgers in advance of an order and now they make them by the order. McDonalds was also very heavily focused on burgers for like FOREVER. They now have changed their model to include healthier options based on consumer demands. Comparing a sandwich shop and burger joint is a false equivalency. Subway even modified how they do sandwiches because of Quiznos. Subway never toasted their bread until Quiznos was stealing market share. If you are going to compare something don't make it so drastic.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

We the consumers have been asking for a lot of things but if they strictly refuse to do it, it won't happen. There are examples of things getting changed or implemented but there are also more changes or implements that we've been asking for years that haven't gotten done.

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Then continue to shut down fellow players "Because devs". How many times did we hear from Devs' "We can't add more housing or inventory space". I know I have heard it for a long time. Look we have more space, more wards (twice as many) and now even a chocobo saddlebag.