So since we're adding submarines...

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Originally Posted by Driavna

This need to stay with the new rules. Not only that but also should require that the other three players are from your FC as well.

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This actually makes a lot of sense. It's doubtful that the new 4 member minimum requirement to buy an FC house will be enforced beyond the initial purchase of the plot, which means people will easily be able to hire 3 random people to join their shell FC while they buy a house. While it's annoying for legit players, the requirement of 4 (FC) crafters to make anything in the workshop would disincentivize folks from buying/keeping shell FC houses, at least a little.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

This actually makes a lot of sense. It's doubtful that the new 4 member minimum requirement to buy an FC house will be enforced beyond the initial purchase of the plot, which means people will easily be able to hire 3 random people to join their shell FC while they buy a house. While it's annoying for legit players, the requirement of 4 (FC) crafters to make anything in the workshop would disincentivize folks from buying/keeping shell FC houses, at least a little.

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If they do something like this, then I want the other 3 people in the crafting party to be required to do something as well. Add a little minigame thing or just -something- that actually requires 4 people, not just 1 player and 3 afk bodies.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

This need to stay with the new rules. Not only that but also should require that the other three players are from your FC as well.

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Then if your FC friends are not online, you get locked out of progress. It creates an extra step of convincing random people to leave their FCs and temporarily join yours while they afk in your workshop. People might not want to do that if their own FC leaders aren't online at that time to invite them back home, locking them out of resources they need to use.

I think we need less arbitrary restrictions on this. It makes no more sense to require a light party for this than it would to water a garden or access your retainers. Diverts people from whatever they want to do in the game to make them stand in a room... stand and wait activity.

It's not really arbitrary though, four is the minimum number of people you need for fc stuff. Which likely based on the minimum number of people you need to field a complete light party. (WoW's is similar, except you need 5 people)
Removing it primarily, and pretty heavily, benefits the people who have shell FCs to buy extra houses with.

For others, keeping it there has the benefit (to SE) of encouraging people to grow their FCs so that getting four people is a non-issue. Either by building a group in core hours, getting heaps of members, or even merging smaller FCs.

Making it more interactive could make it more fun, but probably worth keeping in mind that it should influence the outcome which could be bad.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

This need to stay with the new rules. Not only that but also should require that the other three players are from your FC as well.

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Right, since we're following on your tangent, how about this. A full alliance of 24 level 70 omnicrafters (as in, all crafts level 70), in your FC and having been in your FC for 5 years straight? That strict enough for you?
Basically, I don't agree with tightening the rules. Keeping them as they are, OK, it's the status quo so I can take that. But actively making them stricter? That I can't get behind. I thankfully have enough active FC mates that if they were to make it stricter, I could still pull it off. But housing as is needs a revamp, and help more FCs access it, etc.

I am in an active, mid-size FC with a strong core of crafters. Getting four people into the workshop has been possible for us most of the time. If the requirements were any stricter, I think we'd be in trouble.

Every time we put out a call for crafters, the majority of our members who are online are:
Waiting on a timed node, Vista, fish etc.
In a dungeon queue
AFK
In an instance (the most common)

In other words, they are playing the game, and having to stop and come to the workshop is an inconvenience (fortunately one that they are willing to put up with).
Having to sit around AFK while someone feeds materials into the machine is not engaging or fun, which is why I'd like to see the four person requirement lifted.

Tightening the rules may stop some people with single-person FCs from crafting but it will also have the effect of making FC crafting a lot more tedious and difficult for FCs like ours. There is very little content for FCs to do together, let's not suck all the fun out of this.

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Originally Posted by Sairys

It's not really arbitrary though, four is the minimum number of people you need for fc stuff.

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Gardening = 1 person
Aether Wheel Stand = 1 person
Remodeling = 1 person
Diadem = 2 people to enter, and I believe the 2nd person can leave after you get there.
FC Crafting = Arbitrary 4 person minimum to progress. (And as stated, the other 3 people don't need to do a thing.) It is quite literally a 1 person activity, with an arbitrary added 3 to sit in the workshop.

Yes, you can pay people to sit there. Yes, you can "get more members." But all of that is beside the point that it's just an arbitrary slot filling mechanic. Not to mention a waste of 3 other peoples' time. It means nothing at all in regards to it being a FC activity.

And the shell FC argument is nonsense. Those people can just as easily pay 3 other random people to sit in their workshops. (In fact, they can just have the other people running their scheme sit in there.) Nothing is preventing that now.

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Originally Posted by Sairys

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I get the intent of why the restriction is in place, but in practice it's not encouraging collaboration and doesn't change anything about how people use FCs, they can just grab random people to advance to next stage of project. So it seems like a nuisance restriction with no upside.

I'd love to see the 4 person requirements removed. As others have said, most of the time it's just one person feeding things in and 3 others just idling there so even if they reduced them to like 2 people, most of the time there's still going to be one person just having to AFK there just for the sake of it. I also understand it was put in to try and promote doing things as a group, but in reality, that just doesn't happen.

While we're talking about workshops, it also takes approximately 90 mouse clicks to make one stage of a craft and that process really could do with being streamlined. Ideally let us hand in all stages at once (like how we hand over multiple items to an npc?), but even if it was just everything in one stage at a time it would help greatly.

I tend to make our company aetherial wheels one month supply at a time (so 60 wheels for 30 days) and with all the mouse clicks it takes literally hours (it starts off fast, but as time goes on you start misclicking and it slows right down). Sure you could break that into smaller weekly batches, but then you have to get 4 people in the room to AFK 4 times instead of one longer time :S

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Originally Posted by TarynH

Gardening = 1 person
Aether Wheel Stand = 1 person
Remodeling = 1 person
Diadem = 2 people to enter, and I believe the 2nd person can leave after you get there.
FC Crafting = Arbitrary 4 person minimum to progress. (And as stated, the other 3 people don't need to do a thing.) It is quite literally a 1 person activity, with an arbitrary added 3 to sit in the workshop.

Yes, you can pay people to sit there. Yes, you can "get more members."

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The comparison to gardening and remodeling is false equivalence given that it's also an activity available through private housing while airships are not. The aetherial wheel is minor enough that it's not actually super relevant. Which then makes Diadem an exception to the 4 person thing.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

-snip-

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So make it more collaborative, with a reward if your fc does well in whatever that is and a detriment if they flub.