Community: The Biggest Loss of 4.0 PvP

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

As for the 4.0 changes, I believe they were trying to make it more accessible for more people outside of the current community because it was content unused by the greater population. Only through simplifying it, increasing new tempting new rewards, and making it easier for our PS4 community (how do they use that many skills on a controller... I know some buy keyboards and a mouse, but the ones who play on controller in PVE have my eternal respect), that really made the population boom. When you increase the population, you have greater chances of running into the bad actors such as bots, people who don’t take it seriously, etc.

You also gonna understand the strain SE developers were under balancing the skills for our multitude of classes. Making it simpler to balance it, gave them time to introduce new PVP modes. It gave them more time to develop new instead of preserving a all too complicated system with problems they were spending too much time overcoming.

And as for the Feast, SE doesn’t make that type of change unless it is 100% necessary. I imagine chat in Feast was more often than not vulgar, harassing, or problematic. You were fortunate enough not to run into that. But they know from the reports. You do not.

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For the record, everything I've done, including my video work, has been done on controller. I have never been, in any way, impaired or restricted as a PS4 player.

As far as issues with button bloat, PvE or PvP, Stormblood's overall skill pruning solved that. I have, in many threads, shown how flawed the "too many buttons" argument was, and using a job widely considered "complicated" by the community back then.

And it needs to be said: If SE's reports were anything valid, or a good data sampling, we wouldn't have had 6 seasons of wintraders freely (and sometimes obviously) cheating in the Feast til now. There's also the fact that there are better alternatives, many recommended by the community itself, if only to avoid issues that came as a result of a blanket fix to a problem that was not nearly as widespread as people believe. Many simply choose to default to taking SE's word over the actual players, but that, again, is why I so vehemently encourage others to see and read it all for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

making it easier for our PS4 community (how do they use that many skills on a controller)

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The controller set up is a lot easier honestly than a KM combo I find personally for combat. You can get up to 48 buttons without having to switch between crossbars as they allowed for shortcuts.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I think we just have to agree to disagree here. To me the similarities are, at best, the words only -- the actual actions and optimizations are vastly different.

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Optimizations yes I won't dispute that but principals are sometimes harder to teach than optimization. Unless you are in a Free Company/Linkshell party DF and PF people are reluctant to teach. There are exceptions but they are few and far between.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

As far as issues with button bloat, PvE or PvP, Stormblood's overall skill pruning solved that. I have, in many threads, shown how flawed the "too many buttons" argument was, and using a job widely considered "complicated" by the community back then.

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There's one more benefit that I think is far bigger to the dev team than bloat.

PvP and PvE balance are now entirely separate. Need to buff/nerf an ability in pvp? They can do that, no worries about upsetting the raid community or something. And vice versa. No need to make long tooltips even longer by explaining how it differs in pvp. No need to have some abilities flat out disabled in pvp, but still there on your hotbar...

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

PvP and PvE balance are now entirely separate. Need to buff/nerf an ability in pvp? They can do that, no worries about upsetting the raid community or something. And vice versa. No need to make long tooltips even longer by explaining how it differs in pvp. No need to have some abilities flat out disabled in pvp, but still there on your hotbar...

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They say that, but. . . The reason there was a 4.06a

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

They say that, but. . . The reason there was a 4.06a

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Timing of changes has nothing to do with it. Criticize SE for that if you like. But it's unrelated to the points I just made.

The point of that was the fact that they claimed they didn't get enough feedback or data for those changes from the preseason because players were too busy with Omega Savage, and that just wasn't true. You may have to dig a bit, but there were literal "Feedback: Job" threads. And of course, rather than communicate this in a timely manner and perhaps extend the preseason, they just shotgunned everyone into Season 5. . . Imagine if they did that with the raids?

Imagine if they did that with Stormblood in general?

..That still doesn't change the basic point, and it's only tangentially related.

I'd personally love to get to know more people in this game who frequently do PvP on Chaos. As it stands, though, it feels rather insular and hard to get involved with. There's a few PvP Discords to be found though they're typically aimed at Aether first and foremost with Chaos as an afterthought at best.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

..That still doesn't change the basic point, and it's only tangentially related.

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Doesn't change the point, but if the split was to alleviate any issues with balancig between PvP and PvE, what was the real reason the changes were so delayed, and even after admitting they didn't get what they needed after 3 or 4 months and blaming it on PvE, why start the season anyways?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd personally love to get to know more people in this game who frequently do PvP on Chaos. As it stands, though, it feels rather insular and hard to get involved with. There's a few PvP Discords to be found though they're typically aimed at Aether first and foremost with Chaos as an afterthought at best.

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How I met PvP folks was hanging out in Wolves Den. I went there to duel to get better at my job before I went into the queue. Sometimes it will be dead and other times it will be a cluster. I know of several Discords aimed at Primal but as you have said I have yet to see one for Chaos DC.