Question to players

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Originally Posted by Infindox

See, I actually WANT to play with people who aren't as good.

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If everyone was willing to learn as much as you do, this idea would never been in my mind honestly, but lets be honest here, rarely anyone wants to get better because they tell you to basically fuck off. Happens --most-- of the time when I tell them what they could improve. Not saying everyone but most.

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Originally Posted by TroySoFab

Let me comment before reading any of what OP said. NO!!!!! Also something something overwatch.

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Can I ask you why? Even if this was only going to apply for lets say expert roulettes?

As amazing as this sounds for getting my weekly tomes, I wouldn't want it. It's an MMO and MMOs are about community, bad players are part of the experience. If someones performing poorly you can try give them a little advice if you're feeling up to it. Or you can do what I do and get a laugh out of watching them play like a fool.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

The ranking would be completely hidden from players, you wouldn't be able to see your own rank, let alone anyone elses.

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This straight-up makes it worse. It removes any and all possible defenses and just says: "You're not good, you don't even know you're not good, now go away."

Can't very well improve if you don't have feedback! I think even Yoshi would be okay with adding parsers to the game before this.

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It would apply to Expert Roulette only, storyline stuff, levelling, trials and 24 mans would be completely unaffected by it.

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Still against it. I always do Expert on DRG (solo queue) post-SB, and some of the comments I receive at the end fill me with life. I distinctly remember a period of 3 days, back-to-back, where the tank was doing standard mass pulls while I was paired with either a BRD or MCH, and each time they didn't sing me TP songs nor do any AoEs themselves. I was kinda miffed about it at the time, but within 5 minutes of finishing the dungeon I was over it.

I'll take the variety stance here: I wouldn't necessarily want to be 50% or more of the entire party's DPS over the entire run, but the fact that that's a thing that can happen both amuses me and keeps dungeons from being the exact same thing time after time.

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The odds of it actually causing you to fail your duty are next to non existent, how frequently do you fail an expert roulette?

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More than zero, which is too many. Mostly less patient people being a bit douche-y and rage quitting that some member of the party or another sucks, or they got the dungeon they didn't want, and that leading to a disband or whatever.

You throw 4 "bronze-tier" people wearing bare minimum ilvl into an EX dungeon and I guarantee you the number of failures would skyrocket, though. Especially over time, since ostensibly "almost good" people would be graduating more and more, leaving the pool of available players worse off down in Bronzeville.

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It would only be a system of prioritisation, it's not going to segregate casuals from hardcores, in short, if there's 4 dps in the queue, it'll pair the highest ranked pair and the lowest ranked pairs together along with any corresponding healers that might be waiting. If there's only 2 DPS in the queue, they will get put together irrespective of their rank. Tanks would still end up first come first served unless a number of them queue at the same time.

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Err... sounds like you just really have it out for tanks with this one. Guaranteed 2 "bad" DPS and a "bad" healer somewhere around 33% of the time, that'll get more people to queue as tank! lol

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I'm sorry but no, that's just garbage at least as far as Expert roulette is concerned. Few people take notice of even an especially high standard of play in Expert, especially those that are underperforming.

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More anecdotes from Mr. DRG here: I did a double-DRG Ala Mhigo a couple months back. Other DRG is, y'know, not amazing. No AoEs, failing to keep BotD up, the usual stuff. Tank certainly didn't notice that only one of us were doing their job properly and kept doing large pulls (or less cynically, because I also do this: continue to pull big to give the straggler(s) opportunities to improve), and halfway through the dungeon? The other DRG started mimicking me. Standing near me and following my positioning while tossing out Sonic Thrusts and Doomspikes, and they kept AoEing mob packs from there on out.

I'd like to think they learned something. Which can be depressing, because it means they got that far into the game without being paired with another AoEing DRG (they are quite rare, though...), but it can also be encouraging in that, well, maybe these asleep-at-the-wheel types are willing to improve. Obligatory cynical stance of they were watching Netflix and not bothering the first half, but maybe we can even spin that into a positive with "they noticed they were paired with a good DRG and felt guilty." I'unno. However, I do know that regardless of which option we go with this system would make it even more rare and that's probably not a good thing.

I'd have to say no as well. Overwatch jokes aside, there's just too much that goes on in a battle, let alone a full dungeon run, that it's gonna be unfair no matter what automated metric system is in place. Plus it seriously promotes toxicity. Definitely not something we need.

Darrc above had some solid points, I might not agree with all of them but I can't deny his rationale.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Plus it seriously promotes toxicity. Definitely not something we need.

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And then we have this little gem....

Please explain to me how a completely invisible and likely rather negligible prioritisation system that'll inevitably only ever really get to pair up like minded DPS is going to 'seriously promote toxicity'?

Seriously? What?

Well I'm sorry, but if you ask me, the only toxicity it'll promote is from you because you're less likely to get a free ride in one singular roulette.

Is that toxic enough for you? =P

*edit*

And before I get jumped on, despite my interest in this post, I do actually appreciate that in the grand scheme of things, it's a bit of a waste of time now compared to likely better things that SE could be working on.

However, I really can't stress how frustrating it is to continually see other often fantastic ideas around here immediately stamped on by the screams of 'but think of the kittens! it'll make them all toxic!'. Try thinking about it for more than a moment rather than just shutting down anything that might remotely shift the current status quo.

Darrc's post is an example of a negative post that's actually positive for the thread, it's a solid well thought out piece of discussion & I'll happily give that a like even if it is crushing my hopes and dreams ;)

Your post above is just useless and shows you don't actually have a clue about what's being suggested.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Well I'm sorry, but if you ask me, the only toxicity it'll promote is from you because you're less likely to get a free ride in one singular roulette.

Is that toxic enough for you? =P

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Keep up with singling me out like this, you'll see some toxicity alright.

Putting all the bad players together is a punishment. You will be punishing people who don't know any better and according to your system will be informed by suddenly being put in the poop-pile to learn from other poop-denizens.

How hard will it be to climb out? do you really think SE will want to lose all the free-riders ? they may suck but they are a constant inflow of money into SE's coffers and are just as valid a player as you are. They WILL leave too if all of a sudden they have multiple wipes and people leaving because "you guys suck". Not to mention the horrendous DPS queue times as you have to have people in YOUR tier available instead of just anyone.

I'm thinking nah on this one. I can deal with one or two bad runs a month, which is what I get. Games fine.

Depends on what content you're applying this system. I mean, to me, it just feels like a really overblown parser and I don't have problems with those either when they're applied in the appropriate content. For me, that content would be expert, savage raids and ex trials.

Now, to implement this system would also mean to change the way the game works as well. After all, its far easier to complete expert content when an entire group is decked out in 340's than one with entry lvl gear. So that system's algorithm would have to match the party's overall ilvl to provide fair grading. After all, it would not make sense for example, to give a SAM in i300 a lower score because he could not match up a RDM in i340, even though the latter's pumping out half of his skillset and dps and still providing "good" results.

Then there's 24man raids. I will not go over that cuz people have already gone over why this can't work.

So all in all, while the idea sounds...ok on paper, it just sounds like an extreme solution to what could be simplified if a parser existed for the high end duties.

Besides, if one person in the party is holding the entire group back, chances are its a PF pug group and the greater solution is to kick the person out.

I can see how an idea like this sounds good on paper but it would never work as intended in practice because there are too many variables for it to calculate properly. Because of this its more likely to cause more problems than solve anything.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Putting all the bad players together is a punishment. You will be punishing people who don't know any better and according to your system will be informed by suddenly being put in the poop-pile to learn from other poop-denizens.

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This. Silver and Gold players can go to hell. Even if bronze improve to higher rank (=learned), how long does it take when we'll see third party site calculating (read that: hogging) characters from lodestone or input from ACTs and start grouping by how fast they learn? This is the mob mentality, it doesn't matter what sort of rankings you have.