Please remove esuna from cross role actions

I would like to point that the 2 other healers had their own esuna and shroud of saint (stronger ether flux in the case of scholar)
Cleric stance is different from what it used to be, only the name rename so it's hardly a "whm" skill.

It doesn't mean that I agree with you regarding esuna.

I can see what they wanted to do with role skills, but they made a mistake. They added two types of role skills.

Some of the skills put in the role skills are baseline "all of this role need it, so we made it the same skill across all of them". Rampart is the perfect example of this. But some of them are situational skills. And having limited slots means you end up cycling through situational skills a good deal of the time. It's entirely possible to screw over a group simply because you forgot to change those role skills.

They need to pick one side and stick with it. Either Role Skills should have mandatory skills only, or situational skills only. Mixing them together just causes problems.

This is just a tank's PoV, as it's the most blatant there, but I feel like it applies at least somewhat to healers as well.

I have no shame admitting I don't even have Esuna on my bar. Can't speak for specific content, but for generic play you'll only ever see much use for it in certain Alliance raids (old). However, at least there is some call for it in specific areas, unlike Rescue. Having said that, despite being a DPS-Healer advocate, even Cleric Stance seems like a total waste. Only time I see much call for it is during PoM/TAir Holy-Spammage on monster trash pulls, otherwise +5% damage for ST is a bit meh. Sure, low cooldown and all that but still. Meh.

Esuna shouldn't have been made cross, that's for sure. However, as far as Healer is concerned, the only ones I considered must-haves (with varying degrees of mandatory) is QC, LD and Protect. Protect should fall into the same category as Esuna -- the only (weak) justification for these changes is that one Healer could spec for them while the other takes drivel like CS and either Res or EfE (that 180s CD is just... Ugh).

The only reason Qc is considered mandatory is for rez. If they'd simply reduce the cast time or literally make it instant (even with a 1min cd), the skill would loose a lot of its appeal (which is fine, I'd still take it for quick aoe shield). E4E simply needs a rework. It is just bad in most raiding situation and it's not like dungeons require it.

I wonder if they'll a dress some of the issue in 4.2.
I can't wait for the live letter

In the end its a matter of taste as well, but tell me, do we loose anything from gettin esuna back on all heals - and maybe protect as well?

I miss it, having these 1-2 slots would be nice...

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

The only reason Qc is considered mandatory is for rez. If they'd simply reduce the cast time or literally make it instant (even with a 1min cd), the skill would loose a lot of its appeal

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Not for me. Hello QC-Holy for mega-trash-pulls which allow me to comfortably AoE-DoT before the inevitable 'let's see how squishy this tank really is' moment. No, really, assuming the DPS aren't eating mechanics for breakfast, Holy see's more QC use by me (outside of raids) than Raise ever does. Hell I'd even say a QC-AIII is better than leaving it on your bar just in-case some pleb can't dodge a telegraphed one-shot.

Meanwhile, I haven't seen a use for Esuna except WoDarkness Alliance-Roulettes - but again, speaking as a dungeoneer rather than a raider. Even Rabanastre doesn't really have much call for dispel.

With that in mind, I can only assume their goal for the change was to allow for that customization so that Healers could decide whether none, one or two of whatever is needed - but I still think that's a bit sad when little is lost by just having Esu/Prot as base for all Healers and letting them customize in other ways.

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In the end its a matter of taste as well, but tell me, do we loose anything from gettin esuna back on all heals - and maybe protect as well?

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'Taste' doesn't come into it when the chosen cross-class abilities are a mix between 'useful' and 'why do I even have this option?'

QC - Yus.
Lucid - Yus.
Break - Yus. (Hmm, better mention the sarcasm).
Esuna - Talk about niche.
Surecast - No comment.
Largesse - But of course.
Rescue - Trolly McTrollerson.
Protect - Damnit, get back to being baseline you silly spell.
Cleric Stance - Of course you want that WHOPPING 5% damage increase, right? Righhht?
Eye-Eye, Cap'n - 180s CD. Personally don't see the point other than for mega-pulls, and even then...

Not seeing much room for taste at all.

If you know your content, you know when Esuna can sit on the bench. Protect, well, unless you ENJOY editing your bar when you know Healer#2 has it, then, well, who wants that nuisance? Quick-Cast? Even if you have mega-faith in your squad, it's best not to throw this way just in-case. I can't speak for everyone but I'm rolling with Prot, QC, Lucid, Cleric and Large (swapping Cleric for Esuna if the content demands it). The rest just seem completely naff.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

Not for me. Hello QC-Holy for mega-trash-pulls which allow me to comfortably AoE-DoT before the inevitable 'let's see how squishy this tank really is' moment. No, really, assuming the DPS aren't eating mechanics for breakfast, Holy see's more QC use by me (outside of raids) than Raise ever does. Hell I'd even say a QC-AIII is better than leaving it on your bar just in-case some pleb can't dodge a telegraphed one-shot.

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Swiftcast Holy is awesome. Swiftcast Aldo is pretty nice when I screw up and I know I'm about to take major damage. It's got uses aside from Raise, although Raise is the most dramatic one because it takes so long.

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Meanwhile, I haven't seen a use for Esuna except WoDarkness Alliance-Roulettes - but again, speaking as a dungeoneer rather than a raider. Even Rabanastre doesn't really have much call for dispel.

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O4N will kill two people at the start of the fight without it. Hashmal's Extreme Edge puts up a DoT, and while that often kills people in one tick, it is possible to Esuna it off before it does if your timing is really good or they're a tank class, preventing a death. I honestly never take it off my bars at all because inevitably I'll wind up in a roulette with someone who doesn't have it where it is needed, and only after the fight starts will I realize I don't have it. For what I could put there instead, I don't find that worth the hassle or error risk. ("Both healers never used Esuna" isn't exactly unheard of in the Tales of the Duty Finder thread.)

It's not needed a lot of the time, but it doe come up occasionally.

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With that in mind, I can only assume their goal for the change was to allow for that customization so that Healers could decide whether none, one or two of whatever is needed - but I still think that's a bit sad when little is lost by just having Esu/Prot as base for all Healers and letting them customize in other ways.

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Honestly, I think their goal for the change was to give all the tanks the same base cooldown suite and let them customize between Shirk and such (although raiders will probably just take Shirk), give DPS customization options (they have it best with this system), and the healers got it because everyone else did. I don't think it's added much to healers because you've got "effectively mandatory", "occasionally mandatory", and "who cares?" as options.

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'Taste' doesn't come into it when the chosen cross-class abilities are a mix between 'useful' and 'why do I even have this option?'

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Yup.

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If you know your content, you know when Esuna can sit on the bench. Protect, well, unless you ENJOY editing your bar when you know Healer#2 has it, then, well, who wants that nuisance? Quick-Cast? Even if you have mega-faith in your squad, it's best not to throw this way just in-case. I can't speak for everyone but I'm rolling with Prot, QC, Lucid, Cleric and Large (swapping Cleric for Esuna if the content demands it). The rest just seem completely naff.

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I've always got Swiftcast, Lucid, Largesse, Esuna, and Surecast (mostly because I don't find anything else really worth bothering with in this slot for a lot of the content I do). I cast Protect via macro which does the juggling for me, and the fact that you can do such a thing shows how silly Protect as an optional spell really is.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Wouldn't that just contribute to the button bloat they are trying to avoid though? Removing the limit of role skills taken would instantly add five. Giving each healer back their own cleanse would actually free up a slot, and/or allow a different role skill to be introduced, and just add one skill to the hotbar which I'm sure most healers have already allocated it anyway. I'm also a bit selfish here, but I also like when each cleanse had its own unique animation and spell name.

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Give healers a couple buttons back and remove role slots instead. If you add Esuna and Lucid base and only give 3 slots, you don't have any bloat but you are ensuring newbie healers have core skills while levelling. It's a real issue right now that they don't know to take those and get into trouble because of it.

Protect should have been removed or they should have made Divine Benison's name Protect and given it only to WHM again for identity.

Esuna and the other cleanses should have been left alone so each healer had one. It's just a natural part of the healers kit and should be there. As for sch not getting one until later, they should have swapped Adlo to level 40 and Leeches to level 30. I mean SCH doesn't get an aoe heal until 35...should Medica/Helios/any aoe heal have been made into a role action too? The logic they used to remove Leeches is flawed and if they were just reducing button bloat, I think only WHM ended up with less as most of the their skills went into Role Actions.

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I cast Protect via macro which does the juggling for me, and the fact that you can do such a thing shows how silly Protect as an optional spell really is.

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The reason I don't do this is because there will be occasions where people are dying in raids (both casual and standard). If I have to raise people in Rabanastre, for example (because you're guaranteed to get people flailing around, getting squashed by pillars or unable to move during flame-arm), then you can re-protect them at your leisure. It won't save them from one-shot mechanics, but in some fights it can stave off the need for additional healing (eg. Quake IV's in the same fight).

QC, Luci, Prot, Larg and either Cleric or Esuna for me. I don't see much point to the others (though that doesn't mean I value Cleric much, even as a DPS-Healer)