But that's not an absolute, that's an opinion. You make it sound like effort and time don't cancel out each other, which they do. After you get your savage weapons you don't need it for anything else either, so that argument doesn't hold any water. Both are gotten and are used in all of the game's content which one wants to use them in and it makes any content they want to use them in easier whether it is extreme primals, dungeons, aquapolis, and alliance raids. What we use savage and relic weapons in don't need to meet a "standard" for them to be useful; it just needs to make whatever we want to run easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texa
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11-25-2017, 06:31 AMGhastly
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11-25-2017, 06:37 AMPArcherDifference is raiders will use those weapons to push themselves farther; speed runs, parse runs and now Ultimate all really need the best gear you can get. The people demanding raid-level gear without putting in the effort often want to just sit and pretend they're good...just like all those lovely mentors who can barely 1-2-3 properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghastly
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11-25-2017, 06:56 AMKageTokage
I'm really hoping relic armor will allow us escape the plague of bad itemization that's been going on lately (Namely, piety being on practically every 330+ healer piece).
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11-25-2017, 06:56 AMTexa1. UltimateQuote:
Originally Posted by Ghastly
2. PUG raid farms
3. Static broke and they have to try-out for another serious hardcore static
4. Best weapon to have when the new raid tier first drops
5. Best weapon to have when new EX primals drop
6. Challenge runs
I could keep going -
11-25-2017, 07:04 AMShoukoSE isn't really good with change, they tend to stick to a formula that works and that's it. Bad itemization was an issue in WoW as well, I don't see it changing, unless they give us a way to change stats on gear like WoW did, but again that'll just lead to more elitism, "I see you have spell speed, you really should change that to crit". No there's already too much elitism as it is. Granted itemization is a problem but just think of it as more of a challenge to work with and we know hardcore players love their challenge lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
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11-25-2017, 07:12 AMMahrze
Raiders only need to have the best of the patch, they could care less regarding the source. If at the end of the expansion, the relic is the best weapon they will spend time/resources for it. People who work on relics, regardless of their player quality status (because that's a thing) invest time on them at leisure.
Relics should be on par with whatever end-game raiding gear is available, because rehearsing the same dance for x amount of time still an investment of time and resources as mindlessly doing fetch quests or repeating a resource grind ad nauseam. The availability of said power is the only thing that is debatable.
Justifying you need to have the best items to do x activity is moot when at the end of the patch installment the relic is still "the bleeding edge". If the next patch (4.2) does land us the relic, the likelihood of the relic being on par with the next raid won't be until a patch later (4.3) 3 months of "bragging rights" are just enough. -
11-25-2017, 07:13 AMviewtyjoe
Relics are welfare gear that exists purely to keep content that would not have an adequate population/long queues otherwise. SE deliberately keeps the ilvl on relics just below the current tier of raid gear in order not to alienate raiders by offering superior items (outside of at the end of the expansion) that don't require the level of skill that successful raiding groups require.
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11-25-2017, 07:18 AMTexaThey probably do when the process to get the best majorly takes away from their time for raiding and the stuff they want to do outside of that. Which the last relic and the relic before that definitely did back when they were current. We don't even know what the next one will even require yet but I wouldn't trust any prior claims that it won't revolve around repeating any old content until I see it and if Eureka is like the Diadem again I'd honestly prefer just running old content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahrze
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11-25-2017, 07:24 AMBourne_Endeavor
For the final step, sure. If you intend for the relic to always be better each tier, then absolutely not. Doing so trivializes the primary reward for clearing Savage. Sorry, but actual difficult content should always reward something better than an easy, albeit long, grind.
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11-25-2017, 07:28 AMMahrzeQuote:
Originally Posted by Texa
With the way they spoon feed the gear, they really don't. BiS has been mostly available since Deltascape Savage landed. If by 4.1 the relic was the same i345 as the ultimate coil/deltascape savage gear, the stat weights would likely put it on the edge (if minuscule) ahead of the other two sources.
With the min-maxing, it'll put them ahead and a raider at that point would already have a Genji or Ultimate so the grind still renews.
Emphasis: I am not advocating that on launch, both relic and raid gear have the same available level because someone will cry foul. I am however, advocating for a better schedule to make the relics available to match, which would in turn favor raiders.