How is the summoner dps?

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

When it comes to recovery abilities like those of rdm, the point is not "what can be done without them" but rather "what can be done with them." My group wouldn't have cleared o1s-o4s as fast as we did if we had a blm or even smn instead of rdm during prog. Should we git gud? Yeah maybe. Still doesn't change the fact that most of our first clears wouldn't be possible with a blm. Some of the casters that switched to rdm for prog agreed that they wouldn't have cleared as fast if they went with blm/smn instead. It's not impossible to clear fast with a blm, but you can't really deny that bringing a rdm makes things easier during prog.

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I'm not denying anything, I'm just against this rampart opinion that you HAVE to get a rezz dispenser to complete a fight for prog or you can't clear, which is factually wrong. Wouldn't say that it is very good for world prog, but you try to get the best possible players/coomp for that and it's different from every ppl comp

Yeah it's not required, it just makes it easier and allow more rooms for mistakes. As you said, different needs for different groups, some people want to clear quickly while others just want to play the classes they like.

Prog is going to always be certain combinations of jobs due to the synergy they have with each other. RDM was an obvious choice to bring over a SMN or BLM because of mobility, synergy with melee (embolden), rezzing ability, and decent dps. Ease of playing the job also heightened these facts. Still see people bringing RDM for prog, but at least with the changes to SMN, I can see people considering it now as well. BLM, though there is no issue with bringing one, will be overlooked still because people want to progress as quickly and smoothly as possible. Speed is big factor in prog.

I think mobility on RDM is a bit overrated, short burst movement are fine but if prolonged it is problematic for them eventually, they have no dots and most proc are all casted, sure they have OGCDs and could use their melees combo in a pinch, dunno popular or viable that is tbh. Honestly SMN is really the king on movements fight more than ever

The only guaranteed mobility of rdm is swiftcast. You can only "time" your dualcast for mechanics when you have mapped down every single gcd you can do in that phase, which wouldn't be feasible mid progression with all the inconsistencies. If something happens during your hard cast phase you lose that cast, just like a blm.

Summoner DPS is high. Way too high in fact. It's currently doing damage competitive with Samurai and above Black Mage and Monk while also offering better party buffs than any of them. It should be below Monk in damage, not pushing Samurai numbers.

See, I come at it from the reverse: I don't think SMN damage is high, it's probably not even high enough to offset double ranged physical comps. That said, BLM/MNK/SAM damage is nowhere near high enough and that has nothing to do with SMN.

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Originally Posted by Leukka

See, I come at it from the reverse: I don't think SMN damage is high, it's probably not even high enough to offset double ranged physical comps. That said, BLM/MNK/SAM damage is nowhere near high enough and that has nothing to do with SMN.

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The way to get past double ranged meta is to have jobs that inventivize having casters, not having a Samurai Caster with Raid Buffs. I agree BLM needs a buff, but SMN could do with a light nerf at this point.

I think any nerf right now would make Summoners unhappy since it just got (partially) fixed.

Even with the changes, it's still one of the more complicated jobs to play so their damage is fine. I think SE should focus on fixing the other jobs first, especially Monk and Black Mage, before comparing and balancing Summoner to other jobs.

You don't balance jobs with sole buffs.
If sam/blm scores are considered as balanced, then smn is not and should be lowered.

Basically if smn are nerfed, smn will be unhappy.
If every job but smn are buffed, smn will be unhappy.
If the situation remains as it is now, much more other players will be unhappy.

There is no balance with everyone beeing happy, because everyone wants it's own job higher than others.