Zenos redemption arc will make Stormblood great again.

Alternatively, that cutscene was a lie, because Varis was putting up an act in front of Elidibus the whole time. Which is also not to say that Varis secretly cared about Zenos or anything, far from it. He openly stated that Zenos wasn't meant for the throne, which was probably a sign that even the Garlean Empire has limits in this regard.

It's funny how that entire scene was a ball of contradictions, at least to me. Was Varis putting up an act and he really did care about Zenos, or was he just stating the truth and he couldn't give less of a damn if he tried? If it was the former, then whoever Elidibus hijacked must be someone truly special, to get through to Varis like that (my money's still on Regula) or maybe even his reaction was a calculated act, in the case of the latter.

I feel like the writers should've gone a different direction to make Zenos more unlikeable. For example: Yotsuya. I have absolutely no sympathy for her, and even her sob story was wasted on me, because we spent so much time on her being a complete monster, that I just loved hating her, and throwing in her history was just... weak storytelling. The whole thing was so ridiculously contrived. If Zenos had gotten the same treatment, more people would probably have hated him.

They almost got me to truly hating Yotsuyu by making her partially responsible for the death of Gosetsu ... then they "resurrect" both of them and Gosetsu has somehow accepted her now. So am I supposed to hate her or what? I'm really getting confused. I can get how old Gosetsu has such a large heart he'd forgive anyone, but does that mean I have to have such a big heart too? Ok, assume I do, which gets us back to topic, Ahem. If Yotsuyu and Fordola get their redemption arcs, Zenos should be granted the same mercy, too, please.

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Originally Posted by Raqrie_Tohka

Well on second thought, maybe his father was simply that strong of a person. "My son died. Regrettable, but meh. Yes, I care, you idiot, I just don't get affected by it. Besides, he seriously had it coming by now. I'm not stupid, like him."

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I don't agree that that's strength, I'm afraid. The paraphrasing you wrote up is basically the attitude he had that I was talking about. He could not be moved to feel anything but contempt for his own son, and if what lies just below that is that he thought of Zenos' psychological state as just-so or inevitable, he's at the very least guilty of failing to intervene in Zenos' development out of neglect or deterministic apathy or both.

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Originally Posted by CaesarCV

Rather than taking his reaction to Zenos's death as some sort of great proof of his rationality and the like, I think it was more meant to convey just how cold Varis was as a person. He was introduced spitting on the grave of his grandfather after all, it's clear the man doesn't care much for family.

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Yes, this, precisely. It really twisted at my heart that he was so cold about it. Maybe it's a smaller wonder that the boy turned out the way he did, if that was his main point of reference.

I didnt personally want a redemption arc for Zenos, I actually found fighting him to be refreshing. No ulterior motives, no puppetmaster behind the scenes, and no one's will but his own. Zenos just wanted to fight and kill worthy opponents for the sheer joy of it, I found it very... honest in a way, if that makes sense.

As far as Zenos taking the throne I don't think he'd want it, being a warrior as he is, I don't think he wants to be a politician. I also have this personal theory that Varis sent Zenos to Ala mihgo specifically to keep him far away and in a place where he'd be most useful.

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They almost got me to truly hating Yotsuyu by making her partially responsible for the death of Gosetsu ... then they "resurrect" both of them and Gosetsu has somehow accepted her now. So am I supposed to hate her or what? I'm really getting confused. I can get how old Gosetsu has such a large heart he'd forgive anyone, but does that mean I have to have such a big heart too? Ok, assume I do, which gets us back to topic, Ahem. If Yotsuyu and Fordola get their redemption arcs, Zenos should be granted the same mercy, too, please.

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The difference between Fordola and Yotusuyu is that a significant reason why the latter chooser her path was am understandable and deeply seated hatred for Doma because of her abusive aunt. Fordola chose her path because she saw Ala Mihgo as weak and the Empire as strong, and even when presented with the case the Empire is not invincible, she only strengthened her resolve. After learning of the Empire's defeat in Mor Dhonna, after seeing the campaign stalled in Eorzea, after hearing about the liberation of Doma, she could have decided that her choice was wrong and started working to atone, but she didn't. It only increased her contempt for her country.

It's possible that Gosetu's forgivness of Yotsuyu may be the catalyst that drives her to seek her own redemption. I'm not really sure ANYTHING could drive Fordola down a similar path. The Empire has given her much, she's going to stick with it.

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Originally Posted by Raqrie_Tohka

They almost got me to truly hating Yotsuyu by making her partially responsible for the death of Gosetsu ... then they "resurrect" both of them and Gosetsu has somehow accepted her now. So am I supposed to hate her or what? I'm really getting confused. I can get how old Gosetsu has such a large heart he'd forgive anyone, but does that mean I have to have such a big heart too? Ok, assume I do, which gets us back to topic, Ahem. If Yotsuyu and Fordola get their redemption arcs, Zenos should be granted the same mercy, too, please.

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I don't think it's a case of Gosetsu having a large enough heart that he'd forgive anyone (he actually seems rather annoyed in that final scene), but rather that he has such staunch convictions regarding the influence of the Kami in his life that he has simply accepted his current situation as fate and, for lack of a better descriptor, a duty to be seen through to whatever end it holds.

Essentially, his view might be that the Kami have plans for him and Yotsuyu, otherwise they wouldn't have both survived, and so now it is his responsibility to see that they continue to survive so that whatever capricious fate the Kami have in store can be carried out.

It's also worth noting that Gosetsu and Yotsuyu appear to have at least some sort of history together; I can't find the exact part at the moment, but doesn't he refer to her as somebody's widow? He also speaks to her as if they're acquainted whenever they're on screen together, particularly in the cutscene when he surrenders himself to her.

While the survival of either does sort of beggar belief, there would seem to be hints as to why he might save her peppered throughout the story.

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

It's also worth noting that Gosetsu and Yotsuyu appear to have at least some sort of history together; I can't find the exact part at the moment, but doesn't he refer to her as somebody's widow? He also speaks to her as if they're acquainted whenever they're on screen together, particularly in the cutscene when he surrenders himself to her.

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After giving himself up to Yotsuyu to be tortured, Gosetsu refers to her as the "orphan of the Naeuri" and "widow of Sashihai," or something to that effect. (The names might not be entirely accurate. I'm not rewatching that cutscene just to get perfect accuracy.) There is no information on where he learned of Yotsuyu's past, but my guesses are that it become relatively widespread knowledge after she became acting viceroy or the two had some past in the Doman Liberation Front (Yotsuyu was a spy, after all).

On the subject of Varis, I concur that the main point of the post-credits scene of him with Elidibus, or more specifically his commentary on Zenos, was meant to demonstrate how cold he was. That he should brush off his son's death without a single tear is just bone-chillingly cold. I understand that Zenos was meant to be a character nobody liked or sympathized with - I still don't, despite my attempts to explore his psychology and past - but to have his own father not shed a single tear is just icy. Even for me.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

I feel like the writers should've gone a different direction to make Zenos more unlikeable. For example: Yotsuya. I have absolutely no sympathy for her, and even her sob story was wasted on me, because we spent so much time on her being a complete monster, that I just loved hating her, and throwing in her history was just... weak storytelling. The whole thing was so ridiculously contrived. If Zenos had gotten the same treatment, more people would probably have hated him.

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I'm in the same boat. Her sob story actually made me even less sympathetic with her than before.

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Originally Posted by Eyvhokan

I'm in the same boat. Her sob story actually made me even less sympathetic with her than before.

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With the way it was told to us, I honestly felt like we should've taken it with a massive pile of salt. The Echo flashback was... subjective. And the rest of her story, we heard from Yotsuya herself, while at swordpoint. We're taking the word of a known liar, spoken under duress, as the truth?

Apart from that, all these sob stories remind me of Naruto, and the way everyone and their mother's dog had a sob story in that series. That is not a road we want to go down, thank you.