Using AST's Expand in Light Party Duties

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Or you actually play them out properly and pick favorites. Some observation is required, but once you know who performs better, you know who gets card priority (depending on the damage role, of course) since you want to have your cards used for maximum effect.

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Sometimes RNG won't play nice. Yes, with all the RNG mitigation AST has gotten, a lot of the time you can move things around and end up with a strengthened/extended single-target DPS buff. Nonetheless, it's still RNG, and sometimes it doesn't play nice.

Expanded is not so horrible it should never be used. Especially if everyone in the party is contributing at a close to equal level, but even if not, it's better than minutes of no buffs when RNG doesn't play out the way you want.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Expanded is not so horrible it should never be used. Especially if everyone in the party is contributing at a close to equal level, but even if not, it's better than minutes of no buffs when RNG doesn't play out the way you want.

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But ... you discard spire and ewer exactly for the said reasons. There are of close to no use for anyone, so convert them into a minor arcana or free up the space for the draw cooldown to appear or to perform a Sleeve Draw. When you get a card that benefits the DPS, you play it out instantly or bank it when the trash group is nearly cleared.

Hmm, isn't it similar to use expand when compared to using any of the other RR?

Typical party damage output (actually on the low side because healer is AST T_T): DPS = 100% healer/tank = 50%
So DPS does 1 damage and tank and healer does 0.5

Using Balance:
With Expand you have 1.05+1.05+0.525+0.525=3.15
With Enhanced you have 1.15+1+0.5+0.5 = 3.15
With Extend there is no point because you are using up a spear or arrow for it

I don't see much difference of using any of the 3 RR so on average it should be best to burn all spire/ewer if you ever hit one on redraw because dropping it is just a wasted card.

You can talk about times when 1 dps does a significant amount more damage than another but thats all guess work and it is still only a minor difference. At least I don't believe the difference is big enough to call someone lazy or bad.

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Originally Posted by SleepyNeko

At least I don't believe the difference is big enough to call someone lazy or bad.

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Welcome to FFXIV, where if you don't play MY way...

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Snip

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I think you missed the entire point of my post. Quite a few people in this thread alone have called AST's who use Expanded in 4 mans bad, which is why my explanation touched on that level of play as well as explaining why some people may use Expanded.

I guess I can go more into detail though...

"Why do some people use Expanded?"

Q: "Why do people use Expanded in 4 Mans!?"
A: If you've drawn a card and shuffled and it's all you have, using the buff is better than doing nothing. Contrary to popular belief, using any buff benefits the progression of the party more than going through 3 minutes/6 waves of enemies doing nothing, because you didn't get the card you "wanted".

Q: "Don't RR Ewer/Spire in 4 mans! Use Minor Arcana!"
A: Well, depending on the dungeon you may not even have the ability unlocked, but let's play devil's advocate and assume you do, there's still a possibility that you already have an Arcana Card stored. In this event, RR/Using the card it is still better than doing nothing if you've shuffled and it's all the RNG gods have given you.

Do I think Ewer & Spire are awful? Yes, but I still fall back on my original post.
I'd rather see someone RR Ewer & Spire and use ANY card than do absolutely nothing.

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Originally Posted by Kyeria

I think you missed the entire point of my post. Quite a few people in this thread alone have called AST's who use Expanded in 4 mans bad, which is why my explanation touched on that level of play as well as explaining why some people may use Expanded.

I guess I can go more into detail though...

"Why do some people use Expanded?"

Q: "Why do people use Expanded in 4 Mans!?"
A: If you've drawn a card and shuffled and it's all you have, using the buff is better than doing nothing. Contrary to popular belief, using any buff benefits the progression of the party more than going through 3 minutes/6 waves of enemies doing nothing, because you didn't get the card you "wanted".

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Yet you still need a different card to play it out, and by the time you draw a better one, it's usually more useful to apply the buff single-target. That's what I mean.
And don't get tell me you use Expand Spires and Ewer, that's just sad.

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Originally Posted by SleepyNeko

Hmm, isn't it similar to use expand when compared to using any of the other RR?

Typical party damage output (actually on the low side because healer is AST T_T): DPS = 100% healer/tank = 50%
So DPS does 1 damage and tank and healer does 0.5

Using Balance:
With Expand you have 1.05+1.05+0.525+0.525=3.15
With Enhanced you have 1.15+1+0.5+0.5 = 3.15
With Extend there is no point because you are using up a spear or arrow for it

I don't see much difference of using any of the 3 RR so on average it should be best to burn all spire/ewer if you ever hit one on redraw because dropping it is just a wasted card.

You can talk about times when 1 dps does a significant amount more damage than another but thats all guess work and it is still only a minor difference. At least I don't believe the difference is big enough to call someone lazy or bad.

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That's purely based on wishful thinking that each one of the member has a 100% damage uptime, which will never happen. Everyone has to dodge, healers have to heal, tanks have to reposition. The DPS have the least problems with that, since either they got gapclosers to get back to the boss instantly, can continue to dps right after stepping out of the aoe without a need for respositioning (casters) or aren't affected by movement at all (bards and mechanics).

You also can't tell me that applying Spear with Expand is a equal improvement than just giving it to the Bard, which we know they really get a kick out of extra crit compared to anyone else. Or that you use Expand Bole while the tank only takes damage.

And to top it off - Sometimes you 'miss' people with Expand and buff maybe only half the group due to positioning.

It's wishful thinking but I would love to see Spire and Ewer get condensed into one card that refreshes MP or TP based on whichever pool is lower. So if you expanded the card it would benefit everyone by refilling whatever resource they are currently using. Then the card wouldn't feel wasted if it was all you had to expand. I would like to see the card lost by condensing these two replaced with a card that can do something interesting and unusual like increasing movement speed. The RNG of that makes me happy.

Obviously this person doesn't know how it feels to get spires and ewers for 95% of a fight..

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Obviously this person doesn't know how it feels to get spires and ewers for 95% of a fight..

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I play AST frequently on 2 different characters. If I draw those two cards in dungeon duties, they either get turned into minor arcanas or instantly get discarded to free up the draw cooldown 95% of the time.
So what if I get a unlucky streak. I keep drawing until I get better ones, no need to sit on the bad and have them occupy space on my gauge.

That's Astrologian for you.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

I play AST frequently on 2 different characters. If I draw those two cards in dungeon duties, they either get turned into minor arcanas or instantly get discarded to free up the draw cooldown 95% of the time.
So what if I get a unlucky streak. I keep drawing until I get better ones, no need to sit on the bad and have them occupy space on my gauge.

That's Astrologian for you.

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I do the same, but honestly it's annoying and wish it didn't happen as much as it does. At least for me it does.