Any word on SCH healing potency?

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Originally Posted by lulunami

SCH needs some buffs, at least for casual/novice players. Nocturnal AST is a lot better for carrying healing than SCH in PUGs. WHM/AST can get through dungeons and most content by just using Cure II/Benefic II and Medica/Helios. SCH that try to do the same with Adlo and Succor will find it a great struggle to heal.

As it is now, SCH will be the least popular healing job. Sure, it can be strong in the hands of a good healer. However, most players will struggle to play SCH at an adequate level.

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Sums it up. Players naturally gravitate to the classes they know will give you the smoothest run through the encounter. We're not all perfect, we make mistakes in runs, so people of course bias to the most forgiving classes.
Sch took a hit in 4.0 - they got it wrong. This was recognized with some subsequent adjustments - but the work on Scholar shouldn't be regarded as finished.

Irrespective of actual number output, whether this be heals or damage - it's too 'clunky' for want of a better word. It doesn't give you smooth game play, especially compared to the other two healing classes.
So although there maybe number adjustments in 4.1 - cool down/mana cost reductions etc - I believe it needs a bit more than that to bring back the smooth flowing game play the class had before 4.0

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Irrespective of actual number output, whether this be heals or damage - it's too 'clunky' for want of a better word. It doesn't give you smooth game play, especially compared to the other two healing classes.
So although there maybe number adjustments in 4.1 - cool down/mana cost reductions etc - I believe it needs a bit more than that to bring back the smooth flowing game play the class had before 4.0

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The major change, imo, between the flow of 3.X SCH and 4.X SCH is the MP economy. 3.X SCH effectively didn't have MP as it's primary resource, and instead used Aetherflow for that purpose; MP costs were such that so long as you weren't chain-rezzing, you generally never had to think about MP as long as you were keeping on top of Aetherflow's CD, but the extremely limited nature of Aetherflow stacks forced an additional cost-benefit decision onto all of your most powerful ability usages. In contrast, 4.X introduced Quickened Aetherflow, Lucid Dreaming, and much higher proportional MP costs on SCH's GCD heals. Quickened Aetherflow is undeniably a buff, but it changes Aetherflow use from something carefully planned out in advance or calculated in the heat of the moment to a resource that must be consumed nearly as soon as possible, or it is wasted (And combined with Dissipation, actually consumed as quick as possible; See bottom of post for rotation to avoid breaking up this paragraph, but it is now entirely possible to go a full 30 seconds spending an Aetherflow stack after nearly every GCD, and still potentially waste a few seconds on the last refresh.). Lucid Dreaming, while also numerically a buff, at least at current Piety levels, feels terrible on SCH, and destroys the elegant flow that Aetherflow/Energy Drain MP management had in 3.X. I understand that the nerf to Aetherflow's MP return and Adlo/Succor/Pyshick's MP efficiency are so SCH wouldn't have truly infinite MP with the addition of Lucid, but why? To take it a bit out of context, why is it apparently ok for a Caster DPS (Black Mage) to use MP as a secondary resource, but not a Healer?

4.X also gave us Aetherpact/Fey Union. While not a bad ability - merely disappointing as a capstone - it has introduced a new problem to the class's gameplay as well as exacerbated an old one. The Pet AI in this game is terrible, and just about every SCH/SMN player has known this for a long time. Fey Union has brought this even more into the spotlight than it was before by giving SCH an Enkindle equivalent; a skill that is not a direct pet ability, but instead a player ability that commands the pet to take an action. This, for some reason, does not seem to properly enter the pet's GCD queue, so it is entirely possible for the Fairy to decide to just.... not tether to your target, and instead just continue casting Embrace on random people who are going to be topped up by regens anyway. Fey Union also has negative synergy with Dissipation, last expansions even more disappointing capstone ability. While Dissipation doesn't 0 out the Fairy Gauge like some have claimed (It removes it from the UI because the Fairy isn't present anymore, but after resummoning the gauge will still be at whatever level it was before), it does give you full Aetherflow stacks and incentivize you to use them immediately, while also removing access to the resource that is built specifically by using those stacks.



This has become my standard opener for any fight that I don't believe I'll be needing Swiftcast within the first couple minutes. Replace Broil IIs/Energy Drains with heals as needed. Bold section is a 30sec timeframe with 6 Aetherflow ability usages.

Broil II
Bio II > Shadow Flare > Energy Drain
Miasma
Miasma II > Chain Strategem > Energy Drain
Broil II > Energy Drain > Aetherflow
Broil II > Energy Drain
Broil II
Miasma II > Rouse (Whispering Dawn)
Broil II > Energy Drain
Miasma
Bio II > Energy Drain > Dissipation
Broil II > Energy Drain
Broil II
Miasma II > Energy Drain
Broil II > Energy Drain > Aetherflow


EDIT: Regarding my comment on Physick's MP efficiency. Yes, I know it technically wasn't touched. I was referring it it sharing the same MP cost as Cure and historically being identical, and Cure getting a potency buff in 4.0 while Physick was left the same. Regarding my BLM comment, I see Time as BLM's primary resource, managing Astral/Umbral/Foul timers and keeping track of time left to use procs. MP is secondary, as BLM has the option to use a single GCD (Blizzard III) and immediately be at or near full MP.

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Originally Posted by lulunami

SCH needs some buffs, at least for casual/novice players. Nocturnal AST is a lot better for carrying healing than SCH in PUGs. WHM/AST can get through dungeons and most content by just using Cure II/Benefic II and Medica/Helios. SCH that try to do the same with Adlo and Succor will find it a great struggle to heal.

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Can a WHM get through most casual content using their instants and non-GCD healing only? Because SCH can. So does that mean WHM need a buff? I don't think it's fair to remove 75% of the tools a SCH uses and call them gimped.

Or maybe the issue is that people just want to get through a dungeon by relying on one or two buttons without looking at mp or hp bars.

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

WHM are currently only favored in o4s due to progression/low gear levels. AST/SCH is still the optimal healer duo, so I'd be careful about buffing SCH when it's already very strong, as it might push out WHM entirely.

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This. But of course, it'll happen. And we'll get thrown a bunch of "WHM is viable" crap.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This. But of course, it'll happen. And we'll get thrown a bunch of "WHM is viable" crap.

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I don't know...they probably take a look at fflogs themselves, so they have to know that sch is very powerful right now.

And to be honest, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a "advanced" healer that requires more planning to be effective. After all, sch is a tactitian.

They can't just give SCH the same raw healing power as the other 2 healers through gcd spells when it is the only healer with a pet and some instant abilities that are incredibly powerful, if not borderline op.

Also, I don't understand the "4.0 sch is clunky" thing. It plays almost the same as the 3.x SCH. Now you simply need to use LD for mp and replace blizzard 2 with miasma 2 spam for aoe damage.

I think the issue agonizing most SCH is that we're now a hybrid class that doesn't shine in any one particular spot. We have good healing, good DPS, and good utility, but it's easy to see that WHM shine in both Raw DPS and aoe HPS, and astros shine in utility, then say that SCH are worse than both with a heavy bias on direct numbers comparisons.

Most people also discount SCH's crit buff, which easily contributes 400 raid dps added on top of SCH's strong personal dps. They are also fooled by WHM's and AST's overly high overheal %, and look at SCH's lower (but usually perfectly timed/relevant due to instants/shields) healing and conclude that they suck.

Also, @Sebazy, I did try a couple parse runs to compare SCH DPS to WHM but was never able to get a decent tank. One of them just did tiny 1-2 group pulls, while the other's gear broke and he tanked the entire dungeon with 38k hp (and inexplicably still trying to do multi-pulls). So yeah, I never got better than 2400 DPS through the run. I'll have to run some more tonight and see if I can get a decent tank that will do big pulls.

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

Also, @Sebazy

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Oops yeah, it doesn't always pan out well =(

Ta for trying tho! I look forward to the results.

Yep, they have all the statistics and all three healers are doing comfortably well with content and savage clears. In-fact it's the best for all three healers since AST has been released and that should give them much comfort they did things just right with 4.06. Nevermind the facts get in the way with a lot of non-sense.


I do grow tired of hearing the SCH is clunky thing. I never blamed a wipe because "oh sorry Eos didn't pop this". If anything, it's me being a doofus and not placing her in a part of a fight that we move around quite a bit when I want WD to go off at that moment. She can't cast while she is moving, and sometimes people are not self-aware when hitting fairy buttons.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

You don't heal dungeons by relying on Embrace and Physick. You heal them by relying on Excog, Rouse+WD and Fey Union.

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But we are saving them for emergencies! Just like how tanks aren't supposed to use cooldowns on trash in dungeons and save them for bosses! Wait is that TWO buffed regens on a tank during a pull? Oh my!

You know in a previous thread I said it maybe best if some SCHs were to remove Physick from their hot bar, or at-least put it so far aside and learn to heal using every other button your kit has before they resort to that, and they'd surprised how efficient they might become. We don't rely on continuous manual healing, that's for the other jobs that don't have a flying thing around them, and that is why even after two expansions of some may say considerable fairy nerfs, it's still part of the meta.

I don't pug expert roulette that much, but maybe I'll keep an eye out to stream such content outside of raiding.

I think part of the problem is that SCH are spamming physick all the way up to 50, when we get lustrate. And even then without quickened AF trait SCH's will get used to the habit of holding onto their stacks since the CD is so long for it pre-68.

The lower levels are meant to train you and get you ready for the higher levels but for SCH hitting 50 and then 68 means you have to change up your playstyle completely at each point. Meanwhile WHM's are getting useful training from lvl 1, and AST start at 30 and can already use their main features.

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

I think part of the problem is that SCH are spamming physick all the way up to 50, when we get lustrate. And even then without quickened AF trait SCH's will get used to the habit of holding onto their stacks since the CD is so long for it pre-68.

The lower levels are meant to train you and get you ready for the higher levels but for SCH hitting 50 and then 68 means you have to change up your playstyle completely at each point. Meanwhile WHM's are getting useful training from lvl 1, and AST start at 30 and can already use their main features.

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I'm sorry, but no.

I agree with Lustrate only coming until lvl 50, so our reliance on oGCD healing takes a while to arrive, but SCH has Eos and Selene literally from lvl 4. Any SCH can let their fairy do the healing job alone up until Stone Vigil, which requires more attention on the tank compared to other levelling dungeons even if the tank is going slow. Whispering Dawn comes early enough that you can use it in Sastasha, and you get Rouse just in time for Stone Vigil too.

The problem is, I think, that a lot of people start healing on WHM, and once they make the switch to SCH they try to play in the same fashion. There's also nothing in the game that really teaches you the possibilities of SCH's toolkit, so people who don't even read their tool tips have no idea how much of a healing powerhouse Eos is.

There's also the problem that, in order to really come to understand how powerful SCH's toolkit is, you gotta do a lot of mental math. New players won't realize Whispering Dawn can heal for so much under Rouse because there aren't that many hints in the game that would lead you to this end. It is usually through word of mouth that people learn these things, but Mentors offering advice is difficult because there's so many mentors who would rather flame newbies, and those of us who do want to help people learn are usually met with defensiveness.

It IS true that SCH is the least newbie-friendly healer, but that doesn't mean it needs potency buffs.

I guess a 100 potency buff to Physick wouldn't really make or break the game, but SCH's healing potencies are fine as they currently are.