Are BRD/MCH A Sub DPS Class (Support DPS) or Are They Just DPS Now?

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

In the 3rd fastest susano kill (2 seconds slower than the joint 1st) they have a BRD but no SAM. DRG is about 100 dps stronger with their buffs, and they also contribute almost double rDPS to that of MNK with a BRD included. The MNK in that kill got like 300 extra balance dps (fair to say, he was padded). Lets say a good DRG does 3800 without balance so around 4.1k with the same amount of balance as the MNK. This is only a difference of 300 DPS. Now the BRD did 3.6k, if he got roughly 3-4% from disembowel alone, they would have gained 108-144 dps. That is almost half the gap already. Now litany + Dragon sight would quite easily close that gap, probably overtaking it. The issue with offensive support though is that is has more moving parts than pure dps, so to calculate contributions it is a lot more of an approximation than hard DPS but you can see where I'm going with this.

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Again this is not about whether BRD/MCH is currently viable or not. It is simply a discussion of how they are categorized and who they compete against for a spot.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

Again this is not about whether BRD/MCH is currently viable or not. It is simply a discussion of how they are categorized and who they compete against for a spot.

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With that in mind. If we use the rDPS clause than they compete DRG, NIN and to a lesser extent MNK, RDM and SMN. I'm not sure where dps + rdps lies, however.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

Again this is not about whether BRD/MCH is currently viable or not. It is simply a discussion of how they are categorized and who they compete against for a spot.

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No this was a direct reply to someone who had replied to me.

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

No this was a direct reply to someone who had replied to me.

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Sorry about that. Kind of went on a tangent there

Support exists as a sub-role from dps specs in SB. Bard and Machinist, together with them netting less dps than the rest...

The problem:
They achieved this with one (BRD), but not the other (MCH), simply because the latter utility is almost negligible.

The solution:
1) Remove MCH from that quota and bump their dps to the rest's level (most boring option).
or
2) Add more utility to MCH, perhaps one that you can keep up more often, like Bard's. (best option, some people genuinely love to play dps classes that support the overall group).

Technically, BRD is the support out of the two and MCH is more the DPS. Right now though, SE kinda goofed on balancing as, somewhat like DRG, the idea in their head and the reality in-game are very different.

Can MCH support? Yes, like DRG there are some tools to support the group. But BRD has many more as that's been their entire "thing" since 2.0 (old school Foes comes to mind, same with Mages when Healers needed MP).

They have always been a DPS job, thus they are in the category, DPS. They have raid utility yes in restoring resources, but they are still a DPS.

Other DPS have raid utility to boost damage in some form or fashion, but that doesn't classify them as support. The devs have said that there wont be a full/true support job as people expect, as that would be an imbalance to team composition, raid damage, and how the game works in general.

The closest you get, IMHO, would be Astro

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Originally Posted by s3ystic

+ Heal a party member with a song

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What song would this be? The only song we have related to healing gives a 15% healing boost to a party member.

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Originally Posted by Fantasy9

What song would this be? The only song we have related to healing gives a 15% healing boost to a party member.

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My apologies ... I meant the healing boost. Ill go back and fix it.

MCH is not much of a support if you compare to BRD because of way too many skills.
BRD even deals more DPS with much less, but you CAN say BRD is a support dps because hell, they can even esuna or increase heals received by 20% along with many other res and crit buff etc.