4.05 - Tenacity Vs Non-Tenacity Builds

So I see a lot of people talking about how X% less damage helps your healers heal you X% less, but they still have to heal you. And in the current savage content, taking roughly, 7% less on an already mitigated (though CD's I would assume) "Critical Hit" from Halicarnasus at about 35k gives you around a 2.3k reduction. Your healer still needs to heal you for 32,700. Your roughly 1400 tenacity saved your healer less than half a GCD worth of healing potency, or a single GCD from the fairy.

In the case of auto attacks and sustained damage, now we're talking about even small value saved. Auto attacks doing 6k per hit, you mitigate 400 damage with a 7% reduction. Over 30 seconds (about 10 auto attacks), you've mitigated 4000 damage of that 60,000. In that same duration, your healer probably has 12 GCDs to spend. Your 1400 tenacity maybe saved your healer an oGCD directly on you, assuming there aren't already HoTs rolling on you or AoE healing being done to the party.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I removed Tenacity and am trying the Direct Hit thing, and I find myself needing that extra healing from Convalescence (I didn't use it much with Tenacity). I don't have access to much Tier 6 Tenacity materia now, but I will be going back to Tenacity, even if I have to meld Tier 5s until I get 6s.

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Convalescence provides you with 20% bonus to healing received. At about 1% per 200 tenacity, you would need 4000 tenacity to reach that level. Although tenacity's effect is always active and convalescence is activated and carries a cooldown. I would choose convalescence if it gave me 4000 worth of a substat to use on something like direct hit. But because of the nature of these two (one being a buff with a cooldown and the other being passive) you're comparing apples to oranges here.

I thought tenacity also helped the healing, 7%, in the example above. So by the math used the healer would only need heal the tank for 29000, versus the 32k plus. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Whats the % of 2000 Tenacity? This is where it starts to get useful right?

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Originally Posted by Felorr

So I see a lot of people talking about how X% less damage helps your healers heal you X% less, but they still have to heal you. And in the current savage content, taking roughly, 7% less on an already mitigated (though CD's I would assume) "Critical Hit" from Halicarnasus at about 35k gives you around a 2.3k reduction. Your healer still needs to heal you for 32,700. Your roughly 1400 tenacity saved your healer less than half a GCD worth of healing potency, or a single GCD from the fairy.

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Now imagine how small a 1.5% dps increase for a tank is.

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Originally Posted by Felorr

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you are not taking into consideration the damage mitigation

you are not mixing the less damage taken + added healing buff

you are ignoring the fact that the difference between tenacity dmg vs critical dmg is insignificant.

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Originally Posted by DacienSanderon

Now imagine how small a 1.5% dps increase for a tank is.

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It's like 10-15 points of difference between the optimal build and a full Tenacity build, isn't it?

Aren't we forgetting that Tenacity increase dmg dealt too?

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Originally Posted by Reveriekun

Aren't we forgetting that Tenacity increase dmg dealt too?

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Is it the same % as the damage reduction/heals? (I know nothing of this lol)

The basic understanding that I have is that even if you want to build for ten, you're better off simply gearing for it rather than melding it (i.e. get all the gear that has ten on it and then meld it with other stuff). The gains you see from gearing for it are okay, but the extra from melding is pretty lackluster, and you're far better off continuing to meld DH/Crit, and simply favoring ten on gear. Basically its inefficient to meld but okay to choose gear pieces around.