Plenary Indulgence. Really?

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

It's an AoE heal. Cure 1 is not (450x8=)3600 potency. For Ukehi, Medica 2, Medica, Plenary. Your entire party is now fully healed and prepared even if someone fails a lightning strike, and your co-healer didn't even have to stop dealing damage.

This is infinitely more usable than its previous form. Let's complain about something that deserves it like Gift of the Lily 2

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It's usable but unnecessary bloat.

The lengthy cooldown makes it a pain, the 10s duration is awful, and how many fights are you actually popping multiple aoe heals one after the other?

Also, the aoe part is dreadfully low.

I've had stacks on a tank not even reach the melee dps for the aoe heal on the other side of the boss.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

aoe healing requirements for the 3rd and especially last phase of the new savage raid seems to be very high from the streams I've seen. A WHM would be very strong in this instance.

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A WHM would be strong in this instance regardless because they have arguably the strongest Group heals in the game. This new PI does nothing but overheal considering that there is rarely a time that you'll need to use what amounts to an AoE Cure within 10 seconds after spamming 3 AoE heals. Add to that the 60 second CD on the skill that severely limits an already limited skill to a point of being completely redundant and the skill goes from being bad to worse. PI needed the confession timers extended or all around dropped but instead they NERFED the duration to crap, made it proc on the abilities that not only are powerful enough on their own to heal thru almost everything but also made the heal itself so pitiful that it wouldn't matter one way or another if you used the skill because it wouldn't realistically save anyone.

It's worse than ever and honestly I'm more than a little upset because at least before I could make use of PI as a semi-free heal but now it's been reduced to an overheal in situations that I can already handle perfectly fine without the very little extra PI now offers.

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

I've had stacks on a tank not even reach the melee dps for the aoe heal on the other side of the boss.

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That would be because it's not an AoE heal, it's single target heals on whoever has stacks. It's not like each Confession buff explodes in a mini-Cure III.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

A WHM would be strong in this instance regardless because they have arguably the strongest Group heals in the game. This new PI does nothing but overheal considering that there is rarely a time that you'll need to use what amounts to an AoE Cure within 10 seconds after spamming 3 AoE heals. Add to that the 60 second CD on the skill that severely limits an already limited skill to a point of being completely redundant and the skill goes from being bad to worse. PI needed the confession timers extended or all around dropped but instead they NERFED the duration to crap, made it proc on the abilities that not only are powerful enough on their own to heal thru almost everything but also made the heal itself so pitiful that it wouldn't matter one way or another if you used the skill because it wouldn't realistically save anyone.

It's worse than ever and honestly I'm more than a little upset because at least before I could make use of PI as a semi-free heal but now it's been reduced to an overheal in situations that I can already handle perfectly fine without the very little extra PI now offers.

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Well, you're wrong about there not being anywhere you need rapid AoE healing. Off the top of my head, this would have been really nice in 3 seperate places in A8S; going into first intermission, Final- rotations, and J Waves. Also last phase of A12S. Just because we don't have an obvious use case for high AoE healing in current content right now, when there is barely any Lv70 content, does not mean it won't exist.

And stop looking at 3-stack as the skill's only use case. A raidwide AoE goes out and you Medica*2 to heal people back up. But did you actually need that full 600p? Or would 450p and saving the second GCD have been sufficient?

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

A WHM would be strong in this instance regardless because they have arguably the strongest

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are you guessing this or speaking from savage experience? I'm going about what I actually saw from the streams. I main he aler and I'm thinking of ways to heal all this aoe damage if my static and I even get into O3

betting people complaining about the redundancy of PI probably base this on dungeon and ex trials when this is clearly very superior and the most clutch aoe ability against aoe damage we are currently seeing from streams in the last 2 bosses of savage

have you even seen neo exdeath... SCH indom and emergency tactics are on a 20 to 30 sec cd. earthly star on a 60 sec cd. hypelightsoeed is on a long cooldown as well. only Helios is the spammable aoe ability thay Sch/ast has after deployment tactics is used and that is on a 2 min cd. whm has always been good in prog due to the stability it gives the raid. then when statics get more geared you see a lot of sch asts (in the past). I think all healers are in a good spot right now that balance has been balanced

Google klopsgg twitch. Elysium is grinding their way at neo exdeath with a SCH WHM see if WHM is still not viable at end game.

in 15 seconds I counted 4 back to back aoes... aoe fire to knockback damage into raidbuster into flare into vacuum.. tell me how WHMs superior throughput is "REDUNDANT.

BUT OVERHEAL! wahh

/s

and flare brought everyone from full hp to 5%. so everyone has to be full and shielded before that happens

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

are you guessing this or speaking from savage experience? I'm going about what I actually saw from the streams. I main he aler and I'm thinking of ways to heal all this aoe damage if my static and I even get into O3

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I'm speaking from my time in the new Savage raid, in which I was able to use PI in actual practice and found the ability wanting.
Often times, my cohealer and myself had everyone to full health before I could ever pop PI to be even a remotely meaningful contribution to the group and the very few times the moment did come up, it was woefully underwhelming as a healing ability.

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Originally Posted by Riyshn

Well, you're wrong about there not being anywhere you need rapid AoE healing.

And stop looking at 3-stack as the skill's only use case. A raidwide AoE goes out and you Medica*2 to heal people back up. But did you actually need that full 600p? Or would 450p and saving the second GCD have been sufficient?

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I stated rarely, as in not common; never said there weren't instances that required mass AoE healing. However, even if it becomes commonplace that AOE healing would be outright required in the majority of content, the problem with PI is that you have very little control on the skill's execution. You have 10 seconds to use the skill and have to wait a minute before you can use it again, putting a lot of limits on an already situational skill and making it have the exact same problem as the original iteration of PI in that it's not openly available to use when needed.

Also, a flaw in your example is that, in order for PI to get the 450 potency in your example, I would have needed to use 3 AoE heals to make PI have a 450 potency. Now, since you said I'd be saving a GCD by just popping PI, that would most likely mean I already popped Medica 2 as that much damage in that quick a succession would more than justify using Medica 2 for the regen without it being an immediate overheal but by using PI, I'm further risking that possibility to occur and with the now minute long CD of PI.

From my experience in V1S today, here's what happened. Everyone got hit by Levinbolt and would rush in to the middle to stack. I was already in the middle as I hadn't moved out and already had medica 2 running after the Levinbolt hit, resulting in everyone being at a save enough health to get hit by the stack, after which, I'd cure 3. Now, I could hit PI after getting 2 confessions as everyone is still hurting but the problem is, I was not healing alone during this. The SCH with us was very adamant about using Indomitable as my Cure 3 was going off, resulting in everyone missing at most 1k health, leading Medica 2 into the overheal territory alone without PI. The only time I was ever able to use PI at all was after everyone drops down to 1 health but even then, the heal was so insignificant because there is no time whatsoever to really try and squeeze in a 2nd AoE heal before the blast goes out unless I Presence of Mind/Swiftcast it in there but between my heals and the SCH, no one really stayed at low health for more than a few seconds that even when PI was used, it felt largely unnecessary. Maybe if I had solo healed the fight, I'd sing a different tune but just from my experience, it doesn't feel at all helpful.

I think the skill has the same basic problem as cure3: if the fight ever required it the other healers would not work.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Also, a flaw in your example is that, in order for PI to get the 450 potency in your example, I would have needed to use 3 AoE heals to make PI have a 450 potency. Now, since you said I'd be saving a GCD by just popping PI, that would most likely mean I already popped Medica 2 as that much damage in that quick a succession would more than justify using Medica 2 for the regen without it being an immediate overheal but by using PI, I'm further risking that possibility to occur and with the now minute long CD of PI.

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I was actually referring to Medica (300p) + 1-stack PI (150p) = 450p, in contrast to Medica (300p) + Medica (300p) = 600p.

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The SCH with us was very adamant about using Indomitable as my Cure 3 was going off, resulting in everyone missing at most 1k health, leading Medica 2 into the overheal territory alone without PI.

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That's just bad play on the SCH's part. Insisting on using Indom when you have a completely free spell you're wanting to use that would fill the same purpose is idiotic.