Idea for a New Expansion: Gaius van Baelsar lives... and he needs your help

I'd say part of his appeal is that out of all the "Garleans in power", he's the one with the most nuanced view of why the primal problem is in fact a problem (besides it draining the land of aether). Combine what we know of him from 1.0 with what he does in 2.0 and he's the least straightforward Garlean we've come across. There's ample room for his character to be taken wherever the dev team wants it to go and it not be out of character for him.

I think you can draw a pretty direct comparison between the Ultima Weapon Project and the Meteor Project. Ultima leveling the Praetorium is a pretty good analog to Dalamud leveling Bozja even if the scales are different. I don't think either Gaius or Solus knew how destructive either of them were, but one of them still decides to let the project go ahead and the other doesn't. Given that Giaus does discus Midas and the Meteor Project with Cid before Ultima blows, I wouldn't be surprised if that was on his mind when he tells you to take Ultima weapon out.

He's certainly the least-boring antagonist the game has had so far.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

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Honestly, if we had Gaius confirmed alive earlier I still would have put him under potential allies for the Garlemald expansion. While his history is bad one, he was well known to be more accepting of non-Garleans into the Garlean Empire despite his view being to rule over them as future subjects but this view he has is one built on seeing what happens to other civilizations currently in the world being cruel in their own way to their own people and other civilizations around them.

If anything, the events of 2.0, and time he spent presumed dead, may have opened his eyes to what is the real cause of the Primal threat in the world being the Ascians giving the beast tribes and other civilization the knowlegde to summon primals while tempting and manipulating those who seek power for good or bad reasons to pressure for the summoning of Primals.

It is one of the irony of the Garlean Empire's goal to end Primal threat but their methods are the one causing more primals to be summoned which is why it is most likely why the Ascians have a strong hold in the Garlean Empire now through the promises of "ending the Primal threat" but in reality it is causing more Primals to appear and then eventually their most powerful "Primal" being their God Zodiark. Though in the way the Ascians speak the true of "ending the primal threat" as once Zodiark is ruling over the world there will be no more Primals being summoned.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I've no doubt that a number of people merely liked Baelsar because he was a badass antagonist and those always draw certain types of people (even Zenos has a devoted player following...). However...

A Good Character ≠ A Good Person
Having potential value to a satisfying plot doesn't make a character necessarily estimable. I see Gaius a bit like certain iterations of Magneto from X-Men, or The Operative from Firefly (Serenity), Loki from the MCU at times. Hell even the Templars of Assassins Creed are out for world peace and human survival by means of subverting freedom of choice as a shortcut. Potential Tropes: Anti-Villain, Fire-forged Friend, Sympathy for the Devil, Enemy Mine.


As long as his character makes sense and he goes down deserving of having had the game's number pinned on him, I'm happy.

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I get your point and honestly I should probably have a little more faith in the writing team. It is just that past fan discussions on the character leaned a little too much towards excusing his past actions because he was cool. Considering how they handled Fordola and Yotsuyu I shouldn't be so pessimistic but in situations where 'fan favourite' past antagonists become potential protagonists I tend to worry.

It is also a bit surprising cause in the past Yoshi P didn't seem that keen on having him come back in a protagonist role.

I agree with you on those points. There's a difference between bringing out narrative potential and just throwing fan-service to the wolves. We'll see where his character ends up big picture; I've seen little reason to doubt the writing team and surely they know bringing him back is a double-edged sword to be wielded carefully; we've admitted as much every time we've discussed the matter earnestly as opposed to just trolling around about how he's so-obviously still out there. (Hells, even the wonkiness I whine about in Gaius's character isn't the fault of any one arc, just how they undermine one another when taken together.)

I'm curious if he will technically be a protagonist. He was always at his best as a frenemy. From the very beginning of 1.0, Baelsar's been saying that Eorzea must be saved and that the world of man has no meaning if it is not owned by man. That didn't make him a friend when he came with accusations that Eorzea would surrender to Imperial rule and protection or be treated as the enemies of order to be brought salvation by force, and it didn't make him an enemy when shadow and senseless slaughter came for the realm, either.

Now, hatred of Ascians is a big umbrella to gather under, but when not agreeing on that, are there things we won't see eye to eye on?

On the other hand, Varis is literally conspiring with the Word of the Father.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Now, hatred of Ascians is a big umbrella to gather under, but when not agreeing on that, are there things we won't see eye to eye on?

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I predict that if Alphinaud (or any Scion heading there) ever figures out Shadowhunter's identity, Gaius will just do a Regula and go "that was then, this is now, but what can I expect from savages". As in waving off the past as irrelevant, while making sure to insert the usual condescending jab at non-Imperials. It would fit with his dialogue in the Praetorium, as well as how Regula talked to us every time we met.

Presumably we'll just sit there and take it, considering how we did exactly that when every antagonistic character goes on taunting rants, from the Ascians to the XIVth tribunes to Thordan to Asahi.

Random thought: does Thancred remember much from the time he got possessed by Lahabrea? And if so, did Lahabrea ever see Gaius unmasked?

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On the other hand, Varis is literally conspiring with the Word of the Father.

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It does look like Varis is at the least okay with Elidibus just hanging around the palace, and now issuing orders in his son's name. I have no idea why, especially given his apparent hatred of eikons and anything to do with them back in HW, which has now turned into "I told you not to meddle with eikons, but you said that it's totally part of your plan, and the ends justifies the means, so meh".

Elidibus's whole schtick is that he's "doing what's best for the planet". No one wants a Flood, and every time Elidibus acts against an unexpected imbalance he implicitly suggests that if he ever acts against you it must have been for the greater good. Because they "want the same thing", Varis is just sitting back and letting it happen. Frankly, he's an imbecile for not being more critical of how many possible interpretations there are for what Elidibus says, and how many of them in the long run are not in man's favor.

Everyone who has let Elidibus convince them that the intended interpretation of his words is the most obvious, the one that leads to an outcome the interpreter would find beneficial, has - if they even lived long enough to do so - regretted it.

I don't understand why so many players keep faith with him.

What I don't like is :
Varis accepted to do an alliance with an Ascian, even if he is convinced it's good for the planet.

But really, if you did Warring Triad side quest you know what happened with Regula.

And for me, Varis just betrayed his friend.

It looks like Varis will be our new Thordan. Thordan claimed he was the one manipulating the Ascians, but look how that turned out. Which might be what the Ascians are trying to repeat, but at a bigger scale. The amount of faith the Garleans have that their contry's ideals are right is huge. Instant primal, just add aether crystals?

The only person who might be said to have successfully manipulated the Ascians is Urianger. But it's no coincidence he's the person who has done the most research into who they are, what their goals are, and how the world really works. The Garleans don't have enough information about that Ascians to the point they don't know what they don't know about the Ascians' goals. Hopefully a certain somebody showing up will change that.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

...Gaius will just do a Regula and go "that was then, this is now, but what can I expect from savages". As in waving off the past as irrelevant, while making sure to insert the usual condescending jab at non-Imperials. It would fit with his dialogue in the Praetorium, as well as how Regula talked to us every time we met.

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I can't see that, to be honest. What worked for a character they used in a very minor role, very probably won't apply to someone they are setting up as a major character (or, at least, appear to be). I know that hindsight is in operation, here, but I just don't see the two characters as being comparable.


Also - I want to echo what was said about Gaius being the Garlean with the most nuance. He lost a fleet at Silvertear Lake, he had to play second fiddle to Nael, he tacitly supported those who wished to stop Dalamud, he went rouge and launched a second invasion of Eorzea. He's been declared renegade, he got played by an Ascian, he lost badly to an upstart god-killer. He lost everything, really. Everything material, at any rate.


What's he got left? Loyalty to the people he once represented (presumably he might be towards the Populares side of things), anger (at the failures and the betrayals), and a target - the last of which aligns him with us. I'd say that's a pretty good starting place for a returning character.

There are various factions in garlemald with their own views... I'm thinking maybe maximus' faction may be a reason we never had a massive retaliation for doma or ala mhigo... this whole false treaty/summoning event may be just for show to sway opinion in garlemald... reconsolidate power to varis' faction... ramp up the military... tho maximus' survival now could ruin that... why worry about primals when Eorzea and now othard have the WoL around to deal with it... no need to waste money, time, effort, and lives fighting primals and nations... the WoL is already the best weapon there is...