Please Restrict tank classes from wearing strength jewelry.

Many people has the misconception that vit accesories makes you tankier and need less healing which is wrong.

It only gives a few extra seconds before the tank reaches the critical point where he needs inmediate healing. I have saw people that say "but my aoe spells deal more than the extra damage from tanks" which is not true unless you want to say that 1 healer gcd worth of spells> extra damage from tanks on the entire pull, because a single heal is enough to compensate the hp difference, so thats the only benefit. Healers will heal the same even if the tank has 50 or 100k hp the only difference is how much time they have to notice that the tank is going down.

Outside super low hp values tanks going with str accesories and proper gear on other slots, allow a faster run and equally safe as a vit tank. As long as the tank can survive the tankbusters, the extra hp is not needed aside for having extra wriggle room for the healers in case they have slow reflexes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaelk

/sarcasm At the same time, lets make it so healers can\\'t DPS. I was tanking a dungeon last night leveling my PLD and died twice due to not receiving sufficient heals because my WHM was too busy casting Aero.

---

Are you wearing str? If you die in an aero cast time you sound squishy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhearil

Snip...I don't understand healers...snip

---

You are correct except you don't take into account that healers have many ways, at least WHM and AST, to massively heal a crap ton of HP in an instant.

If a tank has lower HP we have to spam heal because our massive healing combos/oGCD skills will over-heal, which is worthless MP/oGCD/Enmity generation.

More HP = we only have to use out Burst heal combos and can DPS for a substantially longer time, which will out DPS the DPS diff from STR rings.
Low HP = Spam normal GCD heals and never able to DPS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

And when was the last time you saw other tanks doing single-group pulls?

---

Never, I main tanks so I don't have to see awful DF ones. I usually don't do single-group pulls either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maku

You are correct except you don't take into account that healers have many ways, at least WHM and AST, to massively heal a crap ton of HP in an instant.

If a tank has lower HP we have to spam heal because our massive healing combos/oGCD skills will over-heal, which is worthless MP/oGCD/Enmity generation.

More HP = we only have to use out Burst heal combos and can DPS for a substantially longer time, which will out DPS the DPS diff from STR rings.
Low HP = Spam normal GCD heals and never able to DPS

---

Hmm lets see: hots/shields heal the same no matter your hp plus having around 10k less is hardly " tank need spam healing" just saying...

Oh and by the way if you wanna discuss something, drop the smartass treatment and respect others. If you dont wanna discuss and you think only your opinion is truth and law then dont bother posting, thank you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperSMB

My only issue with Tanks in STR is in dungeons.

I do WAY more AoE DPS as a WHM than you do as a Tank. Every second I need to stop to Cure 2 you is a Holy I don't do.

---

This is true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhearil

Hmm lets see: hots/shields heal the same no matter your hp plus having around 10k less is hardly " tank need spam healing" just saying...

---

Again you miss the fact that HoTs/Shields are not our burst healing combos. Burst heal combos can go from 1 to full HP on a full VIT tank in a single GCD, and will be ready to use again by the time they need a burst heal again. Lower HP means they will need a burst heal more frequently, and thus our burst combos wont be ready, thus having to spam heal him with regular heals. HoTs do not heal fast enough in the 70 dungeons to rely on only them and shields are not spammed because they cost crazy MP.

I am not discussing anything. I am telling you how it is. This isn't a debate, this is a fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cirith

So this tank goes in pulls 1 group of 3 monsters, takes 3 hits and died before the heal can be off. I'm on my dps watching this tank wearing all strength jewelry and I'm like are you serious why would you wear dps jewelry as a tank?

---

In all honesty, this seems more like an inattentive healer, rather that STR accessories.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cirith

So this tank goes in pulls 1 group of 3 monsters, takes 3 hits and died before the heal can be off. I'm on my dps watching this tank wearing all strength jewelry and I'm like are you serious why would you wear dps jewelry as a tank?

---

/s Perhaps you haven't heard of this thing called "the meta" where players decide to BiS their gear to do as much damage as possible, who cares if it makes the entire dungeon stressful.

Players need to quit zerg rushing things like PotD because it creates bad players who then try to do this in all content.

There's a lot of maths at play here, it's not as simple as 'More vit = More survivable' - the healers saying that tanks using STR accessories require more healing are partially wrong, here's why:

Tank self-heals actually increase in potency with STR (I'm told this is the case for PLD and WAR, it's definitely the case for DRK), DRK especially, their soul-eater combo and DA-AD combo is a part of their active mitigation, providing back health per hit, and thus reducing the amount of damage a healer must heal off and this reduces the amount of healing they require over time. From a mathematically perspective its mitigation of a sort.

Vitality on the other hand is a static value that increases the size of that pool and therefore the time the healer can go without healing the tank and/or allows the tank to flub bigger tank busters, but it does not increase the tank's actual ability to mitigate damage.

With this in mind there is a number of factors to further consider:

What is the largest amount of damage the tank is likely to soak up in a given timeframe
Obviously if the Tank's HP doesn't meet this plus some safety margin to cover slow healers or badly timed auto attacks, they will be one-shot. But values significantly above this are 'unused' - assuming the tank is receiving healing in a timely manner.

What is the largest maintenance heal that a healer will reasonably put out in one cast?
If the Tank's HP pool is too small to receive all of this, they will be over-healed and the healer will have wasted MP/Opportunity. By the same token, if a healer can heal 20k in one go and the tank has 40k hitpoints, they don't really need ALL of the extra HP when the healer could have just cast their cure spells in a more timely manner. If the Tank's Hp is decreasing faster than you can heal them, they are going to die, regardless whether they have 30k or 300k HP unless the DPS can down all of the enemies in a matter of seconds.

How competent is the tank/healer?
Nobody will want to admit to incompetence, but less competent players result in poorer use of mitigation/timely healing and that means you want a bigger safety margin. As a tank your priority is always to stay alive, and if you need to just be a walking target backstop with someone spamming cure on you non-stop, go with that, it's easy and reliable even if highly inefficient, but it's not optimal

The take-away from this is that telling a tank to go full vit and serve as a walking target dummy is the same as when people tell healers to not dps because it is safer!. Tanks trying to 'maximise their DPS' are overdoing it (Especially if they are dropping their tank stance to do it. DRK lose their active mitigation outside tank stance, defeating the purpose of increasing your damage, as now the healer has to work even harder to keep you up, costing THEM DPS), full right-side STR is greatly inadvisable; and some fights will require the use of full-VIT, but most the time, tanks switching out some VIT for STR within reason and playing their class well are a huge boon to party DPS; not simply because they hit harder, but because they require less healing and therefore leave the healer's free to deal more DPS themselves.