As Current Info Stands Who Will Be Lamer in SB, MNK or WHM?

So much for the MNK expansion :(

While I'm hoping they will realize what's wrong with having a skill that depends on you (a DPS) getting hit for it to work and change it, nothing they do to shoulder tackle mastery will make it less lame, shoulder tackle is not a core MNK skill and I don't know where they got that from, the person who designed that skill clearly doesn't play MNK.

So ignoring the riddles and shoulder tackle all we get is a copy of b4b that slows us down for no reason, the generation of extra chakras that I'm hoping can offset the potency nerf on all MNK actions + loss of ToD, and a party buff that doesn't buff the MNK, just helps with the previous chakra generation.

I honestly expect some jobs to undergo an overhaul in the coming patches. Putting aside White Mage and Monk, people have already mathed out Paladin utterly butchering Warrior on both damage and utility; ironically reserving the scenario both jobs underwent throughout Heavensward. Of course, numbers can be more easily changed than mechanics, and we still don't know the finalized versions yet. I just hope the devs don't wait for a year or until the next expansion to address potential issues.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

wait, why is Monk being considered lame? i thought it looked great

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Its raid DPS contribution relative to its competing melee classes has decreased going into Stormblood, changing it from competitive only if the Monk's gear and/or skill is greater than his raid's to scarcely competitive at all.

Its new mechanics massively decrease control by

• removing stanceless skills from its otherwise cyclical rotation, where they had previously allowed one to perfect his timing of reapplications;
• reducing internal balance, which had allowed the Monk to somewhat resort or reprioritize skills in the short-term for longer term gains;
• increasing RNG dependence, through the introduction of Deep Meditation's 30% chance on crit of generating 50 future potency via The Forbidden Chakra casts;
• and reducing potential downtime GCD usage by up to 80%, a thus far Monk-unique mechanic, since one cannot exceed 5 stacks and may enter downtime with 4 already auto-generated.

In addition, many of its new mechanics are fundamentally flawed or counter-intuitive. Riddle of Earth stands as an alternative to Tornado Kick, allowing one to maintain stacks rather than consume them before extended downtime, but it functions only if hit during said downtime with less than GL's duration between the hit taken and becoming able again to strike the boss. Should designs thus far continue, this would be unusable for some 85% of fights. In the remaining 15% it makes Tornado Kick effectively obsolete. No new skill should be so worthless, nor so redundant. Riddle of Fire, at its corrected tooltip, becomes obligatory, but runs counter to what most Monks seem to make a Monk a Monk — it's attack speed. Riddle of Wind and Tackle Mastery spend a skill and three traits for the option of increased mobility as an extended CD should Shoulder Tackle already be refreshed, at DPS cost. One may hope that the Earth-form Shoulder Tackle would at least see mechanical use in Stormblood, but given that only 2 other jobs share the knockback effect (MCH - Blank, and WHM - Fluid Aura), this seems unlikely (Garuda's pet variant still being too unreliable to be considered viable in the hands of most players). 3 skills and 3 traits spent to next to no, or even outright conflicting, advantage in play.

Both will be fine, and if any class turns out too weak in Stormblood then SE will just buff them back up again.

No class is going to die. Stop doomsaying.

I don't dps but my wife mains a MNK and she is pissed off by with all this, they got kneecapped in the potency of every damage ability they have, like 2-5% across the board

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Originally Posted by Dameron

Both will be fine, and if any class turns out too weak in Stormblood then SE will just buff them back up again.

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Monk was weak in Heavensward, so was Paladin and this didn't happen. Instead Monk was shoved to the wayside in 3.2 while Ninja and Dragoon actually got buffs (Ninja directly to their AOE and Dragoon by proxy via Machinist and Bard buffs) despite Monk still being the weakest Melee Job. Paladin similarly only got bandaid fixes.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

Both will be fine, and if any class turns out too weak in Stormblood then SE will just buff them back up again.

No class is going to die. Stop doomsaying.

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Paladin, Monk and White Mage (after 3.4) would all like to have a word with you.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Paladin, Monk and White Mage (after 3.4) would all like to have a word with you.

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And yet there are still plenty of Paladins, Monks and White Mages around, nor has any group actively struggled solely because they included any of these classes.

No, not every class is going to be as strong as the others. It's practically an impossibility in an MMO. But that doesn't mean that the weaker classes are completely unviable, like people are currently painting White Mage to become in Stormblood. Square Enix knows what it's doing, and it's not going to alienate an entire portion of their playerbase by making an entire class literally useless. Have some more faith in them, and just wait how things will turn out once Stormblood is actually here.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

And yet there are still plenty of Paladins, Monks and White Mages around, nor has any group actively struggled solely because they included any of these classes.

No, not every class is going to be as strong as the others. It's practically an impossibility in an MMO. But that doesn't mean that the weaker classes are completely unviable, like people are currently painting White Mage to become in Stormblood. Square Enix knows what it's doing, and it's not going to alienate an entire portion of their playerbase by making an entire class literally useless. Have some more faith in them, and just wait how things will turn out once Stormblood is actually here.

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If by plenty you mean "Significantly fewer using the Jobs for end game" then sure.

Frankly, I would have a little more faith in SE if the additions they made to Monk and White Mage didn't run so contrary to the way the Job's play and they didn't have a record of leaving Job's in the dirt for 2+ years.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

And yet there are still plenty of Paladins, Monks and White Mages around, nor has any group actively struggled solely because they included any of these classes.

No, not every class is going to be as strong as the others. It's practically an impossibility in an MMO. But that doesn't mean that the weaker classes are completely unviable, like people are currently painting White Mage to become in Stormblood. Square Enix knows what it's doing, and it's not going to alienate an entire portion of their playerbase by making an entire class literally useless. Have some more faith in them, and just wait how things will turn out once Stormblood is actually here.

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I was in the 1.0 western beta. In the forums, the majority of the community were very vocal over their concern for the state of the game mere months from release. Yet without fail there were people who would show up in these threads and admonish these people for their concern, telling them they should feel honored SE had allowed them into the beta at all, and that obviously the beta we were playing wasn't the finished product, and we should just have faith in SE. As the discontent in the forums grew, an official statement which was entirely infrequent finally came, which said that SE had an in-house testing group, thanked us for our concern, and told us we were really just stress testers. We all know how 1.0 went down..

Later, when yoshida took over, he stated a large part of his success came from listening to the western players because they were far more specific in why something didn't work..

So maybe let people voice their concern. This game may be created by SE, but it was built by a community.