FF14 HW Excitement/Patch 2.5X VS SB Excitement/Patch 3.5X!

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Class balance would be maintained...not hindered

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From one point of view - if you consider giving each role a new job as balanced.

But it also caused an imbalance. Before HW we had 2 jobs per intended main stat - Vit, Str, Dex, Int, and Mind.

HW added 1 to 3 of the 5.

There's also the issue that introducing 1 each every expansion would mean creating another type of imbalance, where 1 of the 3 playstyles of dps - ranged physical, melee, and magic - would go something like 4-6 years (assuming they continue at current pace) between getting a new job while tanks and healers each got something new every 2 years.

Really, it was going to be imbalanced regardless.

I also believe that keeping themselves beholden to 1 of each role every expansion is stifling for creativity. They should be able to do 2 dps then a tank+healer another time then 2 tanks if they want and it's an option that will work well for the game at that time.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

To address your points:

1) Won't argue that Stormblood will not be very fufilling for players of Tanks and Healers. That said, on the reverse side of the coin, those of us who play Spellcaster DPS and Melee DPS actually get a new class, which is awesome, since we haven't had any since 2.0 launched.

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I agree with the rest but HW they added Ninja for melee .....

I will most likely like Red since it is a caster but going forward for new jobs, no dps please. We have more then enough atm

I don't remember them saying anything about increasing the player in need bonus. IMO there needs to be a bonus for queues as a healer and tank and then on top. I am excited for the MSQ, I am also excited for the new dps jobs even though my main is a tank.

I don't think queue times will change that drastically. But we shall see. I know some people who main tank and are going to SAM, but I highly doubt that small percentage of people is going to cause a problem for dps queue times

I can't say I'm that excited for Stormblood honestly. I'll probably just get the cheapest copy, enjoy the story then pretty much stop playing until the new deep dungeon comes out.
Same content plan from SE will probably lead to the same boredom as last time affecting me.

Wonder whatever happened to the grand airship plans for HW?

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Originally Posted by Vexander

1) Won't argue that Stormblood will not be very fufilling for players of Tanks and Healers.

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I'm happy they didn't add more tank/healing jobs. Consider healing for a moment: We can shield and prevent damage taken or restore health after the hit. Beyond that how much can really be done? You can add support features to buff the raid or better dps options resulting in the current meta of WHM not having a place in high end raiding because SCH brings better mitigation along with more dps and AST brings party wide buffs in albeit rng cards. You can't design content that requires the WHM BIG heals or the other 2 jobs get benched. It seems similar issues exist among the 3 tank jobs.

DPS jobs however allow more options for differing play styles. In my experience a player is not going to switch from their preferred job of healing or tanking simply because a new DPS option is released. That player heals/tanks because that's what they enjoy to play.

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Originally Posted by Seredeelfer

I'm happy they didn't add more tank/healing jobs. Consider healing for a moment: We can shield and prevent damage taken or restore health after the hit. Beyond that how much can really be done?

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"Consider damage dealing for a moment: We can move the enemy HP bar right to left slowly but steadily, or we can move in bursty chunks. Beyond that how much can really be done?"

It's not about what you do, it's about how it's done. All DPS do essentially exactly the same thing, but they come at the end result from different angles. Likewise there are more ways to arrive at shielding and healing than just 3.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

"Consider damage dealing for a moment: We can move the enemy HP bar right to left slowly but steadily, or we can move in bursty chunks. Beyond that how much can really be done?"

It's not about what you do, it's about how it's done. All DPS do essentially exactly the same thing, but they come at the end result from different angles. Likewise there are more ways to arrive at shielding and healing than just 3.

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I wholeheartedly agree. Speaking more from a tanking perspective, there is plenty of room for expansion. In the end, Tanks need to keep aggro, position enemies properly, and take big hits. There are still a ton of new and exciting ways for them to achieve those goals. For example, a tank could be focused on debilitating the enemy, replacing massive defensive cooldowns with damage reducing debuffs. A tank with a pet can lead to some fun gameplay, while a reactive or proc-based tank could be fun as well. Plenty of DPS mechanics, aside from positional based damage, can be retooled into Tanking mechanics without immense difficulty. For example, the Dark Knight in many ways plays like a DPS class, aside from Defensive Cooldowns replacing its offensive ones. Similarly, there is plenty of room to expand healer jobs. A healer with a Combo mechanic like melees, or one focused on switching stances can achieve the same goals as our current healers while feeling different. While the above are only simple (and not necessarily well thought out) examples, the important take away is that we can have significant gameplay differences within the Tanking and Healing roles, just like DPS roles. In fact, even similar end results (big heals versus shields) can feel unique through fun gameplay and visual themes.

I'll admit the lack of a new Tanking Job (and for my healer buddy, a new healing job) did hurt my hype for the expansion, though I'll be playing regardless. I do think that in future expansions they should add some more Tanks/Healers to add more variety to the role. While sure, many Tanks/Healers aren't going to switch roles just because they didn't get a new job, there's also very little to entice players into trying out the Tank/Healer roles. As much as people complained about Dark Knight as a tank, it brought a large amount of players who previously never considered tanking into the role. Some of those players disliked the role and quit, while others found they really enjoyed it. This is also true for Astrologian. While we might not see an enormous dip in Tank/Healer players, we also won't see many people entering those roles. For every Tank player switching over to Samurai, we won't be getting much in the way of replacements. Personally, I'm guessing queues are going to be horrid at launch, but even out a bit once the fervor over Samurai and Red Mage has died down. That said, I think we'll end with a net loss of healers/tanks, though I can't guess how much. How negatively that affects queues is still to be seen.

I know I'm far more excited about SAM and RDM than I was about DRK, AST, and MCH. While it's no indication they'll be fun in the long run, that's two classic jobs compared to HW's one (and Dark Knight is less "classic" than the two Stormblood jobs anyway). And I don't tend to play magic melee much, and love the concept and aesthetic of Samurai, so I'll be playing both of them.

Also, as a healer main, I have no desire to see a fourth healer job. I loved what they did with white mage's abilities in Heavensward (even if apparently they're terrible, but I don't do high-end content so I don't care), and if they do that again in Stormblood, I'll be perfectly happy. Astrologian is fine, but I don't see much reason to concentrate on two different healing jobs (except that I guess it's easier to keep them both geared?) so having more of them isn't very appealing to me.

I'm pretty happy with things the way they are. I hear a lot of people calling for changes, but what changes do you want? Like, specifically? A lot of the people complaining seem to be endgame MMO vets calling for things to be the way they used to be. Well, I am also an MMO vet, but one who never got into endgame, and the way things used to be was actively hostile toward my playstyle. FFXIV is not, and I don't want that to change.

As far as classes go, I think we need to accept that not every expansion can include new Jobs for everyone. That'd be 5 new Jobs each expansion. It takes almost a full year to properly develop and balance a single new job to co-exist with the already existing jobs, meaning you couldn't even have 5 groups working on 5 jobs in the span of a single year, because they couldn't properly balance these new jobs amongst each other.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the existing dungeons/raids curtail possible options for innovation in new Job Mechanics. Could you imagine a class that functions primarily on, say, Channeled spells/abilities working in the slightest in the current format, considering how much movement is required in -some- dungeons? Arguably SE could make it so that you can continue channeling while moving, but other classes can't do that, so they lose out on DPS, making these new channeling jobs much more desirable in fights with a lot of movement. SE would need to nerf channeled damage (in which case in non-movement heavy content they'd fall behind drastically).

Or say, they develop a class that uses HP as its resources to heal/damage/tank. How many big AOE's/Tank Busters and the sort would wipe them out due to them just playing the class? Or say SE introduces a healer that can, 'Overheal,' up to 3x the max HP of a target. They'd be on-demand for clearing new content so tanks could survive tank busters with ease, while other healers get left behind. Then once content is under farm status, they become as little used as White Mages.

I do think its possible for SE to innovate new mechanics for jobs, however, I don't think we're quite ready just yet. We need a lot more time to firmly stabilize existing jobs. White Mage in particular needs an identity and some kind of utility to keep up with SCH/AST.



In regards to Story, I'm taking a wait and see approach. I won't lie in saying the end of ARR (2.55) had a VERY good ending with cliffhangers, drama, and tragedy. By comparison, HW's ending (3.55) is pretty meh. There is very little tension. We know we're going to war with the Empire, but then again, we've always known that was inevitable. The death of Papalymo felt like a waste of a character with good potential, and the reveal for Lyse was likewise a bit on the, 'Meh,' side. Personally I've never been able to feel much sympathy for the Ala Mhigans given how much they come off as entitled jerks in the MSQ and Questing. I only felt bad for them near the beginning, but there are just too many bad apples.

I did feel a lot of hype for Red Mage, especially after reading all of the theories suggesting it was a Sharlayan class, but now its from Gyr Abania, and that just feels like SE telling players, 'See? Stormblood won't be only about Doma! We're giving Ala Mhigo a new class too!' It strikes me as pandering rather than good lore, because really, why have Red Mages been a complete non-entity in the story since the Floods, if they've been on Eorzea since then? Why didn't we see any since Bahamut broke free? Why don't we see any regarding the Garlean Occupation of Gyr Abania? If they were from Sharlayan we'd have a satisfactory answer; Sharlayans don't like sharing their magic, so the Red Mages stayed home. Now they're revealed to have always been in Eorzea, flouting the lore about the Witch Hunts after the Flood, and there are just too many questions that I worry won't have satisfying answers, because this lore decision was made for PR.



As far as Doma/Ala Mhigo being in the same expansion goes, I can't say I'm hyped about that either. I wasn't looking forward to Stormblood initially because it seemed like it was going to be the Ala Mhigo expansion, and really, I haven't been able to work up any enthusiasm for Ala Mhigo at all. Adding Doma was something of a mixed response from me. On one hand, yay, I might actually enjoy the expansion for more than Red Mage! But what keeps nagging at the back of my mind is that we're essentially resolving the story of two nations in a single expansion. It feels like too much and I worry that neither Ala Mhigo nor Doma will get the proper justice their respective stories deserve.

Considering current tank and healer balance is a mess, it stands to reason they ought to focus on fixing that before adding a fourth job to either role. That all said, I'll admit, my hype for Stormblood isn't high. While I do fancy many aspects of the game, I feel they have done a decidedly poor job ramping up excitement. We're being drip-fed information and even EU's fanfest took more time recapping what we already knew. Perhaps the coming months will finally start revealing job updates, though revamp talks seem to grow increasingly... lackluster. Much like those "challenging" new dungeons we later find out will more or less be the same faceroll Heaevensward introduced. I really hope to be proven wrong, but the only thing we really have different is Eureka and this supposedly never before seen content coming in 4.2. After LoV and Diadem, I cannot say that fills me with a huge amount of confidence.

At one point, Yoshi frustratingly said "just enjoy content." I hate to say it, because the devs work hard, but player patience won't be high with Stormblood. People accepted the safe approach with ARR and even Heavensward due to the devs essentially blowing up the original game and starting over. It's been four years. People expect the game to hit its stride now. Sorry, Yoshi. Slapping FATEs in an instanced zone isn't going to cut it anymore.