The "rest of them" were already in DF before RF was implemented... I feel it's important to point this out :P the new ones are in RF, allowing people to freely choose to queue for a (hopefully) quick kill or a learning party, if they haven't clered yet. What exactly do you gain from lumping everything in DF, besides being able to queue for multiple instances?Quote:
Originally Posted by bswpayton
SE please stop putting ex primals in the raid finder and put them back in duty finder
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02-15-2017, 01:45 AMSpiroglyph
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02-15-2017, 02:05 AMbswpaytonI have had zero success getting even one person to join in on rf, I have had every que pop from garuda extreme utp until ravana extreme in duty finder. And yess quing for multiple things at once is a big deal, it helps out alot instead of being stuck in one single que. I dont understand why youd want it to be gated, like I said I never mention gettin rid of rf which I plan to use it for what it was actually meant for a raid. Raids are niche content primals are not more people are open to doing primals than raids so why lump it together with stuff that only 10 percent of the player base does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiroglyph
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02-15-2017, 02:05 AMViduWhat I'm saying is: Sorry that you werent around when more people were doing this content so that it was easier to get in - and sorry that you're placing restrictions on yourself on how to access this content. Sorry that you dont bother with forming a party of friends to tackle this content. I'm sorry that you have this one very specific way to do this content and that you're locking yourself out because of it. I'm sorry you're late to the party and the cake is gone - and now they're only crumbs left, unless you go and bake yourself another cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by bswpayton
I am however not sorry about this very nice no-bonus-feature that RF is providing us with - again: it makes farming in RF actually possible. I like that and I'd like to keep it. I have farmed Ruda EX and Ramuh EX when it was current content in DF, my friends were worried I'd go mad over all the shit groups I got. I also farmed Sophia a bit through RF, with the no-bonus option ofc. Easy peasy - not because Sophia is THIS much easier, but because I was able to keep out the people who hadnt seen the fight at all before.
Ravana and Bismarck are extremly outgeared by now, ignoring most of the mechanics - that isnt the case with Thordan, Seph, Nidhogg, Sophia or Zurvan - at least not that badly.
And I honestly dont get this mentalty of "I'm fine with getting a party that will wipe for an hour on phase 1, when I get to see the content at least!" - what is that doing for you?
Listen, I get that you'd like to do this content, and they've made it a lot, lot easier to try it by now - like how you can queue up alone for the most recent EX-primal instead of having to go in with a full group. They're giving us the little finger and you're asking for the whole hand here. And again: the no-bonus feature is just great!
Some people want to farm this content, some people might want to just do/clear it - if there arent enough of the later, thats sad, but not down to the menu that gives you access... -
02-15-2017, 02:14 AMViduSo, you're saying thatQuote:
Originally Posted by bswpayton
1) opening a slightly different menu from your normal one - its directly next to the DF-window - is "gating" content?
2) the whole menu just needs a different name when it wants to include more than just the raids? Because its name is bothering you?
Simple reason I want it in RF: No-bonus option when queueing for this content in a group that isnt full or alone. Simple as that. In DF I have no choice but to swallow the bitter pill of risking to run into a tank without provoke or someone who doesnt know the fight when I dont want to LEARN this content right now but clear/farm it for my freaking birds. Its a pretty sweet addition that we have that option now. Sorry, but I dont feel like helping newbies through content ALL the time - once in a while I'd like to focus on my own progress too - and not waste time because people dont get what "Stack on A" means. -
02-15-2017, 02:18 AMSpiroglyph
... why not just request a multi-queue RF then?
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02-15-2017, 02:34 AMbswpaytonAnd when do you actually help newbies the thing is if your not doing this in anything other than harder content your not helping newbies nobody needs help with running ifrit normal they may want help but its not needed because it is simply that easy, all this is doing is creating bad players and a we are current and you are not group. Yea I help new players with basic content but a dungeon will be ran over and over into the ground dungeons are not even close to the same type of challenge as any extreme primal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
So from what I hear from the communtiy I will help you with this easy stuff but this hard stuff over here your own your own. And then those same people come here and make post about people not knowing their rotations and sucking at the new primals and failing at mechanics and stay out of my raid teir, if you dont seriously think that in the long run when we have player after player skipping every piece of challenging content because your not open to being in a primal for 20 mins but youll run copper bell mines for 30 mins then the community will forever suck. And I refuse to suck I went out of my way to clear the old extreme primals when everyone wanted to cake walk me through them unsync and I wasnt about that.
So yes I will get in on content that my first run or so I may piss people off but frankly Im sorry nobody is gona tell me that I cant do content because Im doing it three months later and that I cant fail just like that same person talkin trash probably failed at it three months prier. The people in this game have amnesia or something because in reality things should never really be easy in an mmo simply because you have players that come to the game at different times. Every time I log in to the game I see 200 plus new players in the nn , Im not gona say f them when Im playing a social game and just because Im ahead of them I will give them the same respect that Id want for myself. This is a major issue in this game and its really bad people thats been playing for 2 and 3 years I guess only want to play an mmo with players thats been playing just as long as them well Im sorry your not and I doubt that SE would want new players to stop signing up just because obviously their community wants it this way. -
02-15-2017, 02:50 AMSpiroglyph
So your issue is actually that you want to play a certain way - play older content and clear it with the same level of difficulty as it was when it was released - , and if you have to make 7 other players stay in a dead end instance for your own enjoyment, then so be it?
... yeah no, please make a PF for a learning experience
You're in your right to want to enjoy an instance to its max difficulty, but do not for a moment think people who have already cleared it months before are obligated to stay in there with you until you feel you've learnt it adequately/until you clear. Some people have cleared it when it came out and want clean and quick runs, and they're as much in their right in wanting that as you are in wanting to do it your way - just don't expect everyone else to cater to that.
As for the last part of your content - it's quite different helping people getting into a game and helping them around the basics, I'm more than willing to do that. Ex primals though? That's end-game content, you've had time to ask, research and learn the basics of your class and even mechanics to older primals, so yes, I would say expections to both these scenarios are and SHOULD be quite different. I'm not going to queue up for sophia ex and help someone learning their core rotation, please choose a better time and place for this kind of thing... -
02-15-2017, 02:51 AMViduWhat I said was: I'm not ALWAYS up to help people with their EX-primals. I've been queuing up for them to help people get their clears ever since I felt confident enough to do so. I hop into "help me clear this"-PFs. But once in a while I prefer to have some nice, smooth runs with everyone knowing what they're doing. Am I really to blame for that? Or am I only playing this game to get every new player through EX-Primals myself?Quote:
Originally Posted by bswpayton
And what is this talk about people not knowing their rotations when it comes to clearing ex-primals? Hell yeah, people will complain about someone at level 60 not knowing their rotation! They had plenty of time to learn about it - ex-primal-fights are certainly not the time nor place to discover which buttons to press in which order. You want endgame-content back in DF and your arguments are "think of the poor level 45 warrior" and "people not wanting to teach someone new to highlevel content their rotation are hurting the community" - how is that related?
Actually, with a little twist you should be benefitting from the RF-system yourself! If the different phases were to be removed and you can either queue up for "cleared it and want to farm" or "learning", you would avoid all those people who sigh and leave instantly when they see someone with bonus or kick the new person because they want their 10-minute-farm-kill.
You see, you want a certain thing: Queuing up for those primals and clearing them the way they were supposed to clear. At the same time I want a certain thing: Getting my Sophia bird. I might have cleared this fight 60 times by now, so I'd like to run it with people that are more or less at the same skilllevel that I am when it comes to this fight, to make achieving my goal easier. DF forces me to put up with people being new to the fight (and again: I do NOT mind teaching and helping, but I cant be asked to sacrifice my own progress enterily and spend more time in those duties in order to teach and watch people learn). Now yes, PF is an option, thats also widely used - but it is also an option for you. And thanks to the RF we got BOTH options with being able to queue up for them!
People who want to learn/clear it dont have to put up with jerks who want their fast clears and get annoyed at wipes in phase 1 anymore - and people who want to farm dont have to teach the fight over and over again, taking twice as long for the clear (or not getting it at all) than need be. Sounds like win-win to me!
(...unless ofc you're counting on experienced and overgeared people to carry you through the content and are worried that those will rather choose the "farm"-option so you're missing out on them) -
02-15-2017, 03:20 AMbswpaytonIm a tank so no I actually dont plan for people to carry me anywhere, ha did you not see my post on the reward system in the game I believe you commented on it so know I actually want to learn to play the game. But I also want people to understand that if you see bonus like you say are that in the beginning of something I say Im new, then I am new to the content I dont need you ragging me. Are I wouldn't rag anyone else either df is for long term implications just like nobody will be doing primals sync once storm blood comes the only option is gona be duty finder if these things arent current, in a rf setting the feature that was made for raiders then it will turn extreme primals into binding coil and what will become of Alexander a ghost town.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
Its one thing to have this happen to the raids but the primals shouldn't ever be like raid content because the level of difficulty isnt the same. Rf is for raiders, duty finder is for anyone, and if you are a raider then more than likely you have a static are friends that you do content with on the regular duty finder is for anyone of any circumstances so its a significant difference here. When i waited on my longest Arr primal ques it would be new players that waited for an hour or so to me thats dedication Im not gona tell someone they shouldnt have access to it but when you put the content in a feature made for raiders then you are limiting its access. So to keep the content to at least be able to do it the normal way it has to be in df , because the raiders mindset is current content, so next expansion none of the old stuff would every pop in rf sync, but it would in duty finder because its more used. And again the issue Im saying is less people use rf at least on my server on duty finder the data center search would go deeper into finding other players than it would in rf. I would rather have the chance to access the content more with failed groups and some winning ones to where I can just simply que and get in the content than rf where I may get in but it takes longer to get in df has never taking as long for me as rf. -
02-15-2017, 03:35 AMVidu
Somewhere you missed my point and somewhere I lost yours aswell - you're "complaining" now about experienend people in endgame-content being unhappy with seeing a newbie and "ragging" them. You're saying "thats something you should expect when you go in with DF!" - and while that is true to an extend (as in: there is a line about what to expect and what isnt - a level 60 player not knowing their basic rotation clearly isnt okay), the main point of RF is excatly that: To make it easier what to expect. And to seperate the obviously different expectations people are having from the queue.
As I said: Win-Win - people who expect a fast clear or a farm can queue for excatly that by choosing to keep newbies out, and that is totally legit. And people who are looking to learn and clear can queue up for that - keeping those two seperate should actually help both sides, instead of forcing them to put up with each other.
Now about the difficulty... I'm sorry, but you stated that you havent done savage or any of the current EX-primals - you dont seem like the ideal person to judge their difficulty... I've cleared all ex-primals except Zurvan so far aswell as A9S, A10S and got A11S to last phase. A9S for example is from a mechanic-point of view a lot easier than Thordan. Both raids and ex-primals require a certain level of communication and both are complexe, difficult fights. Just because one is called "raid" and the other is called "trial" doesnt mean one is much harder than the other one - the biggest difference is basically the weekly lockout on loot, dont focus so much on the name here...
RF is limiting the pool of people queuing up for content by taking all those who want to farm it out of the "looking to clear"-queue - not by hiding the queue-window... seriously, if you managed to figure out where the dutyfinder-window was when you first wanted to queue for content, you can figure out where the raidfinder-window is. And if you cant do that... I'm not sure if you care that much about doing ex-primals at all.
You expect people who have cleared this content long ago to go back to square one with you, for your sake, while a lot of people have simply moved on and are focussing on more current content now. Does this suck for you? Ofc it does. Are those people to blame? No, they're not, they have every right to put their interest and progress infront of yours - just like you're doing it yourself.
Is a different menue from the usual one to blame for less people queueing up? I doubt it - if you want to access this conent, you'll be able to figure out how. And if you dont to access it, you wont queue up for it anyways.