How would they fix PLD 4.0?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I'd rather they rework PLD so it isn't just the tanky tank and actually has some identity (especially in the OT slot). Also AOE please

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This so much, the paladin has absolutely zero identity.
It's just a tank with trillions of cooldodwns and one of the most boring rotation in game.
To people saying "no but you can min max your dmg with the dot and royal authority", yes, When I play tank it is definitely to dps. I rolled tank in order to bring dps to the group.
Divine Shell and Clemency are a good start but paladin needs much more than that.

It is exactly that they already have a working meta that IMO it is just easier to expand from it. People who want to stick to their tank stance still have the ability to do so, while they can work on their own iteration of roles and changes on skills to suit each job's playstyle.

PLD has no issue with aggro sustain even in SwO, DRK on the other hand has way more issues without having to trade off dps for aggro. In design, DRK is utterly shit with so many conflicting kits. This is also why NIN is such a key piece to bypass DRK's weak aggro for pushing damage in a high skill team setting. What do you think about DRG NIN BRD MCH ruling the current top 4 DPS slot? AST over WHM?

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

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I think that DRG/NIN have more powerful abilities(Battle Litany, Disembowel for DRG; Trick Attack and Enmity Utilities for NIN) that contribute to the raid. For BRD/MCH they've only gotten buffed up in numbers, so that's why they're up there before MNK and SMN mainly outside of BRD's Song Utility and MCH's Hypercharge that stacks with TA. MNK is offset due to it not bringing any utility to the raid except for Mantra(which by itself is a Heal CD that healers can utilize, but won't really need if they're healing the right amounts and managing it properly).

As for BLM...we all know that Savage screwed them over heavily in terms of Enochian. A11S is a ***** to pull off as BLM and keep Enochian due to the mechanics forcing movement all the time. SMN has it more lax, but they only bring Supervirus(SCH has this) and Raise Utility(which shouldn't happen if you're clearing without issue).

With SCH monopolizing the healing industry and AST being heavily fluffed to the point they'd heal exactly like a WHM, it makes WHM way less desirable in favor of card buffs. WHM has more survivability, but having the minimum healing needed is usually what hardcores really want on top of maximum DPS across the entire raid. WHM is also the only healer with MP Issues, given the fact that they're punished for DPSing in Cleric and if they don't have SoS or Assize available, they may not be able to regenerate enough MP without help from the BRD/MCH.

PLD needs to be given parity when it comes to raid dps. If you design PLD to do less personal dps than the other two tanks, this ought to be offset by bringing a greater contribution to raid dps through buffs and debuffs. You can't make one tank contribute less personal dps, less raid dps, and also expend more dps to maintain enmity, while saying that this is balanced by bringing a more robust cooldown kit. This only is "balanced" if providing more dps renders you unable to tank certain fights, which isn't fun for anyone involved. DPS cannot be balanced against mitigation.

It's not just a matter of potencies, though, or this could have been solved at any point during 3.x. If every tank job has on the order of 27-30 abilities outside of cross-class skills, having a simpler rotation and fewer offensive abilities gives you room for a broader utility and defensive kit. If you simply inflate PLD's numbers, then you push it into being the preferred tank, simply because there are less buttons to press, and it brings more powerful defensive abilities. Why work harder, manage triple the oGCDs and play at double the APM, when you can get the same results with significantly less effort? You have to balance both parts at once. I think if you expand PLD's offensive toolkit and tone back its defensive/utility toolkit, you'll also give it more of an identity in the process, by fleshing out its combat style.

You can always actually buff the crap out of Paladin in terms of mitigation and turn it into the lul tank you take because it always survives. What I mean by that is...
Shelltron -> Guaranteed proc of block on the next hit, regardless of whether magical or physical
Block -> Base block % upped to 30, tower shield varients to 40.
Bulwark -> 100% Block on all incoming physical damage for the next 20s. CD reduced to 120s.
Rampart -> 30% reduced damage taken for 25s.
Sentinel -> 60% reduced damage taken for 20s.

So on, so forth. Issue is, the only reason why it would be better to take a PLD would be if the fight wasn't actually conceivable to beat without it, or somesuch. And if the fight was that over-tuned on the tank side, the other tanks would be pushed out of MTing (unless DRK got similarly broken buffs). But all the same I welcome turning PLD into a hilarious mitigation machine. The memes will be good.

PLD 4.0
Lv60 trait - "Triggered"
Every auto-attack you have a 5% chance to turn into a WAR.

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

PLD 4.0
Lv60 trait - "Triggered"
Every auto-attack you have a 5% chance to turn into a WAR.

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Perfect idea!

1. Add damage to Flash.
2. Give Shield Swipe a frontal cone of damage.
3. Make Sheltron restore TP and MP.
4. Replace Rage of Halone's strength down debuff with something else that can buff raid damage, just another job, or reduce incoming raid damage.
5. Reduce the CD of Hallowed Ground, as it's on a stupidly long CD.
6. Make Clemency instant. Have it restore HP in Shield Oath, and TP in Sword Oath.
7. Boost it's damage, but keep it slightly under or on par with WAR (DRK should get the same treatment with this)
8. Let PLD block magic. (would this be OP?)

I'm sure there's some other things that i'm missing, but this is all I can think of off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by Syhrwyb

1. Add damage to Flash.
2. Give Shield Swipe a frontal cone of damage.
3. Make Sheltron restore TP and MP.
4. Replace Rage of Halone's strength down debuff with something else that can buff raid damage, just another job, or reduce incoming raid damage.
5. Reduce the CD of Hallowed Ground, as it's on a stupidly long CD.
6. Make Clemency instant. Have it restore HP in Shield Oath, and TP in Sword Oath.
7. Boost it's damage, but keep it slightly under or on par with WAR (DRK should get the same treatment with this)
8. Let PLD block magic. (would this be OP?)

I'm sure there's some other things that i'm missing, but this is all I can think of off the top of my head.

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Hallowed ground is also the strongest of all 3 "oh shit" cooldowns, so its only right that it has the longest cooldown.

Imo pld dps is fine on some departement (lolaoe).Se should make Pld utility 'The Best' utility on 3 tanks tbh.Main Tank structure of Pld seem okay but more emity would be nice.
but when they dont tank they should have utilities to rival war utilities as OT like having haste or having debuff so melees can do more dmg or megates dmg so healers goes crazy on dps.

that was my hopes for pld when they show 3.0 trailer.