Wanting an explanation for said op of scholar cause I'm not seeing it in my experienc

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Because seems they are mostly the ones claiming everything is easy , someone above said that dungeons dont matter but yet its the most used contnet in the game and i just find it odd to ignore the rest of the game , and the fact that everyone says they are easy but its a thread on here about duty finder instances about all the things that have happened in dungeons. My point was that i keep seeing threads pop up about how whm is the weakest healer and in my exp scholar has been the weakest Ive gone into any dungeons with, are primals.

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Of course dungeons are the most used content in the game, because it's the most accessible/easiest content in the game.
Threads on WHM being the weakest of the three healing jobs are often in context of where that job difference matters, which is the current savage raid. Hardly anyone is making threads on which healer is the weakest in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Because a skilled player can make any job be good so why base a job performance off of them they are skilled they are suppose to be good if ur doing savage ur suppose to be good. So yes scholars that do the highest teir of content in the game , but people that are just playing the game for fun, scholar is one of the harder classes to get a hang on so I couldn't say its op because ur average player doesn't no how to maximize the job. And your average players are the ones who mostly represent the game.

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I'm assuming you've never heard of the concept of "Easy to learn, difficult to master". Knowing the basics of being SCH lets you do well enough in easy content, like dungeons ["Easy to learn"], but it takes skill to get everything out of the job ["difficult to master"].

So, are we just arguing semantics here?

SCH is OP in raids. It's also OP in dungeons. All healers are OP, SCH just gets mentioned most often because it has a guaranteed spot in any competent raid group. If all you're doing is dungeons then pick whatever healer you want and you'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

So, are we just arguing semantics here?

SCH is OP in raids. It's also OP in dungeons. All healers are OP, SCH just gets mentioned most often because it has a guaranteed spot in any competent raid group. If all you're doing is dungeons then pick whatever healer you want and you'll be fine.

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Im picking astro over scholar personally but it wasnt me talkin about which healers I play I also will stick with whm, its more so the scholars have never shown me any reason to feel like the class was op. Nor while I havent hit sixty on my own scholar yet , its nothing that seems amazing to me but someone did explain some of the pros to scholar , thats what I was lookin more so to than just sayin well in raid content etc. Because like I mention its not for everyone and I also mention I have done some raiding as well just not alexander yet

So here is the explanation.

1. Their fairy. Firstly, their fairy has some strong support utility like Fey Covenant, Fey Wind, Whispering Dawn, etc. Secondly, their fairy has infinite MP. In scenarios where MP management is a thing, having a part of your healing be essentially free of cost and infinitely sustainable is a big deal. Paired with their 0 MP healing and Energy Drain, MP management is a joke for SCH.

2. Their shielding. After the buffs to Noct AST, SCH is no longer the best healer for pure mitigation. That said, they're still more than capable of easily and single-handedly dealing with the eHP checks in content.

3. Their recovery healing. Lustrate and Indom are both incredibly effective minimal-delay healing with much better accessibility than tetra, benediction, assize, essential dignity, lightspeed, and swift cast.

4. Their DPS. Specifically, it's the efficiency of their DPS. The bulk of effective / efficient healer DPS in harder content comes from their DoTs and SCH has 4 DPS / MP / cast efficient DoTs that they can easily upkeep due to their strong proactive healing, fairy side-healing, and recovery healing. SCH also has much better oGCD usage than the other healers.

What's important to note is that all these factors exist on top a base healing skill kit that is fundamentally sound and versatile. If it was just a few advantages or strengths, then the gap wouldn't be as noticeable. But, it's the combination of everything and the resulting synergy that makes SCH really good.

I hear you OP. Not in the sense of how you haven't really seen anything special from SCHs, but the views on dungeon content. While I won't argue that dungeons can be cleared despite derps, and raids are far less forgiving, what I often see from players is a shift in attitude once they get some raid clears under their belt. Dungeons are no longer relevant at this point until new ones are released, and these too become irrelevant in a week or so after they do.

I'm not in HW, so I have not done any 3.x raids, but from what I have learned from the small amount of raids I have participated in ARR is a different kind of challenge opposed to DF dungeons. They are extremely mechanic heavy and require a lot of memorization. DF dungeons however, require adaptability. The instance is the same, but your group is different and you honestly have no idea what they are going to bring to the table. I feel that this kind of intangible stress, is felt the most by the healer in the group. A different kind of challenge, but a challenge nonetheless AND a relevant one.

As for SCH being OP, even the devs have stated that how powerful SCH and WAR are don't sit very well with them. The longevity these two jobs have is insane, but it indeed does require a high amount of skill to pull off. Because SCH can self-sustain MP, and WAR can self-sustain HP they are so tough to bring down in PvE when played optimally and can carry everyone else. The other two healers can do amazing things as well, but are much more limited in how long they can do it.

I wish I could introduce you to the SCH that coached me. He would definitely show you amazing things!

Even if we're talking dungeons SCH are better than the other healers. I'm not saying you should pick SCH over other healers in dungeons, but SCH is flat out the easiest class to run dungeons as. Hands down. I actually hate running dungeons as SCH because it's too easy and brain dead.

SCH can easily function as a third DPS in low level dungeon, and in higher dungeons (Expert roulette) they don't waste their GCD on healing spells if they are skilled enough. They use their GCD for DPS and weave in oGCD Lustrates and such.

The same reason War is and always will be OP I guess? Warrior easily takes the lowest amount of skill to play and comes with extremely high DPS output. As with Scholar, based on heresay, (since I don't play one) they have the potential to do high damage while keeping up barriers. But are they as easy as War to play? Probably not.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

An average whm can be alot more effective than an average healer and thats a decent portion of the population so the job cant really be op because of the people playing it.

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I agree with this. WHM is straightforward and a good choice for players who are new to healing because there is nothing complex behind it.

Jobs can be OP due to the ways they are designed and what they are capable of doing.

An example will be WAR, they can hold aggro, do very decent damage and heal themselves efficiently. But you don't see WARs doing all this in dungeons. They will mainly hold aggro and that is it. Same can be said about SCH, player will only heal when damage is done ignore all other things SCH can do.

These jobs have tools that makes them unique compared to others and they will shine if played well. Sadly not many do this or I should say dungeons are so easy that they are not required to play them on that level.

I guess you need to see it in order to believe it, just search for 'SCH solo heal' you'll find many videos and enjoy watching them.

> Turn 10 (solo heal)
> Ifrit extreme (solo kill)
> Garuda Extreme (solo kill)
> Titan Extreme (Solo kill)
> Sephirot Extreme (Solo heal)
> Nidhogg Extreme (Solo heal)
and many more~

When saying a job is OP, it's usually referring to when it's played at a high level.
That means it's very rare to see a well played SCH in your ordinary instance.
The power of SCH is also hard to see from someone not playing or has not played the job. They have near infinite MP, a pet that can solo heal an entire party by itself from Sastasha to Aurum Vale, every level 50 dungeon and mostly everything in level 60 dungeons, a extremely good DPS kit, high mitigation and high burst healing. They also have an abundance of high potency emergency heals that cost no MP and can be casted instantly.

You can tell you have a good SCH if they seem to never turn off cleric stance and you're all somehow still alive and everything is dying much faster.
They're just so versatile in their healing and utility kit it makes them hard to best. It's why they're new mandatory in raids now.

isnt this the same person who managed to make a thread that lasted 15 pages that they claimed was to ask for dark knight advice but ignored and argued everyone telling them why they were playing dark knight wrong? i dont think OP actually wants to know why Scholar is a really good flexible class, i think they just want to put out there that theyve had bad experiences playing with scholars and think all scholars suck but dont want to outright say they're complaining about them.

quoth the original poster "every time ive had a problem in an instance it was because of a scholar" pretty sure thats why theyre here, and not any other reason.