Newbie wants to be a better tank

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Originally Posted by Rongway

The fundamental problem with marking mobs is that you are effectively instructing everyone to focus their hate generation on a single target, but you yourself cannot do that. .

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Popping off 2-3 aoe moves will keep hate off a healer in most dungeon situations where people are single targeting and the tank isn't over pulling for single target kills, unless they (the healer) is dpsing a mob that the tank isn't paying attention to and isn't following the marked mobs.

Also hate is less of a problem from single targeting DPS when their attacking the same mob due to the fact their hate generation doesn't build up as high due to doing less damage, if their both putting out the exact same dps, they'll only build half the amount of hate they would have if they had taken on a mob alone, which means they'll be less likely to steal a mob off of you as long as they keep focusing down the same mob.

Ex:
Mob has 500 hp.
Only 1 player hitting a mob = they'll do 500 damage = 500 enmity max.
2 players hitting the same mob. Perfect situation where both of their DPS match will have them do 250 a piece = 250 Enmity when the mob is dead.

250 enmity is less than 500. Them both focusing on the same mob = less chance of either stealing hate, which is why marking is a thing for new tanks.

Also can I just mention that Provoke dose not generate any extra aggro for you if you already have aggro on the selected target.

So for example, if you have 3 mobs on you, all have aggro on you, using Provoke on one of them will not give you any more aggro on that target. Provoke doesn't work like that.


It places you 1 point in front of a mobs aggro list if another person has aggro instead of you.

So Say your heal is WAAAAAAAY ahead of Mob A, so doing your aggro combos will take forever for you to catch up. If you use provoke on Mob A you will be put 1 point infront of the mob. But only by 1 point.

The Bare Basics
Seeing as how you're new to tanking in general, and to ff14 and it's tools, I'll try explain what tools you have, and how tanking itself is different from a DPS.

Tanking itself is actually quite dynamic compared to DPS. Where a DPS is defined by it's rotations and use of that rotation across the fight, Tanking is much more a checklist of objectives to follow. Yes, a tank has rotations to follow, but your priorities during them differ.

Your responsibility as a tank is to;
-Maintain control of the mobs by maintaining Aggro (Emnity in ff14, they are the same) of all targets involved in combat,

-Maintain your ability to hold control. This will mean using whatever form of mitigation or HP control you have access to. This allows the healers either more freedom or more safety.

-Be aware of your positioning for other party members. The simplest form of this would be facing a boss away from your melee to avoid getting them damaged. Or keeping mobs still for melee positionals. Or grouping them bunched close together for AoEs to hit them all.

-Accommodate your speed to the group's performance. Basically, you don't want to overtax your healer, but you also don't want to waste you're group's potential damage either. You should generally be the first to engage, so you should try to take on a speed appropriate to your party's ability.

FF14 has 2 extremely useful built-in tools to gauge your emnity as a Tank- The Party List and Enemy List. I'll go over both here-

The Party List: The party List is simply the little window that lists yourself and up to 8 party members (in dungeons, this will be yourself and 3 others). By default, the list is hidden While solo, you can have it show while solo by;
-Enter the "Character Configuration Menu"
-Go to "UI Settings"
-Select the "Party List" Tab
-Uncheck the box that says "Hide Party List When Solo"

Why The Party List is important: The Party List lists many things- each members HP, MP, TP, active effects, and most importantly to us, Each member's emnity on the currently selected target. What you'll want to focus on here is;
While engaged to an enemy, Each job/class icon of ever party member will have a bar appear under them that fills. This bar will fill depending on that member's emnity on that target. What this means, as the tank, you want to have that bar completely filled with as LITTLE as the bar filled on other party members. The emptier the bars, the more ahead you are in emnity. More on why a lead is important later.
Basically you want the list active and be paying attention to who has the bars filled highest. you want your cross sword/shield icon with a full bar on it on all targets.

But alas, your Party list only shows for your currently selected targets, how would you know if a target you DON'T have selected has someone else in your sights? after all, you won't only have 1 target! Well fret not! there is a special tool in your tool belt for that- The Enemy List

The Enemy List: This is actually a really basic tool, but it serves all of your general dungeon needs. You see, the Enemy list simply shows all targets you are currently engaged to in a drop down list. However this list ALSO shows YOUR Emnity against them. There are 4 symbols it uses to denote emnity;
- A green/grey dot; This shows you have a small amount of emnity on the listed enemy, but are not it's primary target and you have less than ~50% of it's emnity. As a tank, you should never see this. If this is in the middle of a pull, that is your Provoke target.
-A yellow triangle; This shows the listed enemy has some Emnity towards you. it will be this symbol for ~50-80%ish of emnity towards them.
-An orange triangle; This shows considerable Emnity towards a target, this is generally ~80-99% on the listed enemies' emnity towards you.
-A red box; This shows you have the listed enemy's full attention. As a tank, THIS is the symbol you need to have at all times on all engaged enemies.


With those tools out of the way, now is the time I explain why an emnity lead is important. The simple reason is, the larger lead you have on each target, the more freedom you have to do other things, whether it be damage, mechanics, or resource management.

You see, emnity is linear. That is to say you can have 100 emnity and a DPS can have 99. you will be the target. However, if that DPS jumps up to 101 emnity, THEY are the target. That said, the larger the gap, the less you have to worry. This makes everyone's jobs a little less strenuous. DPS dont have to throttle their damage, you can focus on other matters, everyone is happy.
Your initial duty each pull should be to establish as much of a lead as possible so that, while controlling emnity accross several targets, one doesnt slip through the cracks and eat your healer. ON bosses, this is the same, but this is to allow more freedom for you to focus on increasing your own damage or to focus on any specific mechanics



I know this is a bit wordy, and gives no specifics to GLD/PLD. However, I wanted to give a very broad overview of tanking as well as an explanation of the 2 major tools ff14 gives to you to use while tanking.

Paladin Materia, Crit/Det or Vitality?
Stat Weight should be "1" vor Vitality, higher instead of Crit/Det

Crit / Det on the left side ( Body, head, gloves, pants, belt, ). Strength right side ( Rings, earrings, bracelet, ect). Nothing you have on should allow for VIT to be placed on it.

i never main tank so this is just my 2cents from DPS perspective (BLM here)

if you are really new with tanking/not used with tanking, you can try mark the enemy.

no need to mark them all, just the "number 1" is good enough to make DPS focus on which target first, give you a little bit of breather too since you know which enemy your party is targeting thus you can plan ahead.

as for mob train aoe, all i can say is spam flash and Hallowed Ground i guess (if the skill available)

also if you happen to lose enemy aggro to DPS and that enemy happen to be dying (like >5 hit left) just ignore it and focus on other enemy, we are DPS but iam sure we can take 1-3 hits no problem and by that time the enemy probably drop dead anyway

So I have this rotation as Paladin now and I barely ever lose hare and it allows me to do bigger pulls

Shield Toss > (run into center of mobs or go get another group) > Scorn > Flash > Flash. From there I single focus 3x combo while also flashing occasionally. Good rotation?

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Shield Toss > (run into center of mobs or go get another group) > Scorn > Flash > Flash. From there I single focus 3x combo while also flashing occasionally. Good rotation?

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Yep! That's basically all there is to it in terms of AOE tanking for PLD. Once you get Goring make sure to spread that across the mobs as that's your highest potency combo. Other than that just pop CDs and gg!

http://i.imgur.com/smNx1ZX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PEnLMF9.jpg

That's a nice chart, though it doesn't account for some of the newer stuff added (DRK's fun toys, WHM getting a bubble for tanks to stand in too, AST getting a regen, etc.) Just keep in mind there ARE more than just the listed abilities to watch out for.