not true again...Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
Either Ast nor Eos regs will ever reach the amount of stacked media ll + regen + asylium on the HoT side. On burst healing whm got insta Benediction, Tetra and Assizes and is way more flexibel on "oh shit" moments than Scho with his "weak" aether insta Heal or Asts Essential.
It's true that Sch/Ast are way ahead with their utility-skills but looking on raw healing whms are still king.
edit: All these whm complaining threads are just annoying... because half of the arguments aren't even thought till the end. im lazy right now so i don't will get the name but someone in here already stated that Schs identity is build around preprotection via the shield skills and Ast around the card utility - whm stays loyal to their proper identity back in the days its not about preventing dmg or boost dmg but instantly react to dmg. that's what its all about - honestly its pretty simple.... i wonder why so less people get it.
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10-21-2016, 10:57 PMNeela
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10-21-2016, 11:13 PMDocteur_Fluttershy
again with that? really?
Benediction isnt a oh-shit button, it has a long animation sequence, and if you use it as an oh-shit button, you'll just heal yourself.
tetra is 700 potency every minute, sch has lustrate up to 6 times per minute for 600 potency => 3600 potency.
When you know you need about 3200 potency to fully heal 40k HP, you'll see that the lustrate are way better at that than tetra or benediction, because you can control it, where benediction, if it actualy land, will have a portion of it in overhealing.
and AST instant heal is at 1000 potency when the HP are low, so if you forget about benediction as a oh-shit button, whm is dead last.
For the regen aspect, diurnal AST has the same regen ability as WHM. (medica II + regen + asylum => 50+150+100 is nearly the same regen than collective unconscious + aspected benefic + aspected helios 150+140+40, which make the AST do more regen.)
So in both way, WHM doesnt have the upper hand.
The only real upper hand WHM have is cure III and benediction (not as an oh-shit button).
And dont talk about aspected helios and medica II range, else i'll bring the asylum necessity of staying on the same spot for 24s, while CO gives the regen and you can move out. (moreover, AST can prolongates the regens).
oh, and by the way, sch has indom instead of assize, which heal for higher, has a lower CD, and isnt required to use often cause it doesnt influence a lot in his mp management. -
10-21-2016, 11:14 PMGhishlain
I will have to disagree with the opening post. WHM isn't lacking identity in the slightest if you look at the number of tools direct towards raw healing:
AST Tools - 7 spells and abilities
SCH Tools -56 spells and abilities (including fairy summon, 7 if you wish to include whispering dawn) [EDIT] Missed Succor in my initial count
WHM Tools - 10 spells and abilities
WHM has always been regarded as the raw no-frills healer and it shows.
What has happened is with all these AST buffs that have occurred, AST has stepped on one too many toes in the WHM kit (I'd argue it crushed the WHM's foot to be honest) and thus, for all intents and purposes, have regulated WHM to be "AST-without-cards".
I believe the better train of thought is "what can S-E do to differentiate AST from WHM (and SCH for that matter)" and I hope S-E thinks long and hard on that with their 4.0 tool set. -
10-21-2016, 11:19 PMDocteur_Fluttershy
i really want to see the spells and abilities you counted, cause for me it doesnt add up to that at all, but the icons doesnt show up.
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10-21-2016, 11:22 PMExiled_Tonberry
AST can use synastry, aspected Helios and aspected Benefic, time dilate it and never have to heal on a large pull. The amount of HOT, while weaker, vastly surpasses anything WHM could ever put out.
You can argue ASTs wouldn't want to use their time dilation this way, but I'd argue that it sees much more use than a Benediction or Cure III, the two spells that comes even close to being unique for WHM.
Also did you seriously just call SCHs insta heals weak? You do know lustrate carries most raids right?...
You would have to actually play WHM to realize just how bad they are right now. Their utility is so limited it's a shame, their healing toolkit is a joke compared to AST, the mana regen is absolutely horrific, their dps is good but it can all miss, Holy costs too much MP, stoneskin is horrible but it's out only mitigation, we're the slowest healer, regen is significantly worse than Aspected Benefic yet costs more MP. I can go on and on, WHM needs help and a identity -
10-21-2016, 11:28 PMGhishlainAST - 7Quote:
Originally Posted by Docteur_Fluttershy
- Collective Unconsciousness
- Helios
- Aspected Helios
- Benefic
- Aspected Benefic
- Benefic II
- Essential Dignity
SCH - 6 (I actually missed Succor in my original count | 7 if you include whispering dawn)- Summon (it provides a HoT via Embrace, can argue Whispering Dawn as well for another spell in the SCH kit)
- Physick
- Indomitability
- Lustrate
- Adloquium
- Succor
WHM - 10- Tetragrammaton
- Regen
- Medica
- Assize
- Cure II
- Asylum
- Cure III
- Benediction
- Medica II
- Cure
Overall I don't think WHM is bad as some people make it out to be but at the same time the only reason to bring a good WHM over a good AST is "comfort level" at this point in time. I will ALWAYS take a good AST over a good WHM in its current iteration if I have a choice. -
10-21-2016, 11:34 PMExiled_TonberryMissing the point. I'm not saying WHM lacks in heals. I'm saying it lacks in anything unique to itself. "More heals" isn't any identity, it's what a healer should be able to do regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
That being said I agree completely with the main problem being AST taking too much from the WHM toolkit. It wasn't so apparent when AST has weaker heals, but now that AST heals are only slightly weaker than a WHM, it makes you feel like WHM should offer something more. -
10-21-2016, 11:42 PMNeelaactually i play all healers with ilvl 245+ so i don't think i have to try anything ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
Whms don't need anything to keep up. They aren't as bad as you guys try to spread.
You just have to accept that their toolkit is not about utilities but about reaction. -
10-21-2016, 11:44 PMFoxyAreku
White mage never lost its identity...?
It has always been and probably will always be the strongest healer for pure healing bar none, and it even does the most damage (in short bursts cos lol mp management). What more of an identity does it need?
White mages are still being used in savage progression to make heal-intensive fights easier at low item level, and they bring the mind buff which is basically a permanent balance on itself and the offhealer, if you think white mage is bad you might just be bad with it (or overthinking it). -
10-21-2016, 11:45 PMGhishlainI didn't miss the point, I just disagree with it. I don't feel WHM is lacking anything. Just take this for example (arbitrary numbers being used) :Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
Say WHM has healing tools for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 degrees of damage.
AST has tools for 1, 4, 7, and 9 degrees of damage
SCH has tools for 1, 2, 4, and 6 degrees of damage
Your MT tanks 5 degrees of damage.
AST can use tool 7, 9, or various combinations of 1 and 4.
SCH can use tool 6, or various combinations of 1, 2, and 4.
WHM could use everything past 5, or any combination like 1+4, 2+3, 3+3, 1+1+1+1+1, 1+2+2 etc etc
WHM has a lot of DIFFERENT healing tools that do the same thing at various levels of magnitude. That's their identity.
Unfortunately, as stated below:
...with this comment being said *Prepares flame shields* WHM actually has weaker overall healing than AST. They just happen to have more instant and free buttons allowing for a larger area of comfort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry