Changes I would like to see for ninja in Stormblood

This is what I would like to see for Ninja:

Hyoton: Changed from a bind into a cast-able slippery ice terrain, Any enemy on the terrain gains the debuff Frostbite and slides upon movement within the ice terrain.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110218221634

Hide: No longer carries a movement speed debuff, but walking while Hidden proportionately decreases the effectiveness of enemy detection against you. Hide is no longer an ability but an innate trait.

Sprint=You lose hide immediately.
The faster you move, the more likely Hide will fade. You could theoretically remain in hide indefinitely provided you tread slow enough and don't get hit.

If this is abused in PvP it could be worked differently in PvP settings.

Suiton: One Ninjitsu, no longer requires Mudra combinations to activate. Applies Hide for 12 seconds.

Shukuchi: Has no cooldown during Hide status and can be used one after the other, remains the same when not in hide mode.

Spinning Edge/Gust Slash/Aeolian Edge/Dancing Edge

• Share the same hotkey space.
• When using Spinning Edge, Gust Slash takes the place of it and remains until another weaponskill is used.
• If standing behind an enemy Aeolian Edge takes the place of Gust Slash.
• Dancing Edge will take the place of Gust Slash standing anywhere but behind the enemy.

Kiss of The Viper and Wasp: Share the same space and are toggle-able. The color of the icon let's you know which one you are in.

Assassinate becomes a trait called Assassin:
Assassin is a potency trait that increased the potency of any damage skill used during the countdown phase.

When a target's health is below 30% a blood gauge starts filling on screen counting from 1-8. Any weaponskill used during the countdown will reset the gauge until the enemy is dead.

1= Extra 10 potency
2= Extra 20 Potency
3= Extra 30 Potency

And it can build up to a maximum of 80 additional potency.

Okay I went on my own little quest to measure the damage of all the debated skill with the help of the combat log. All simple not-crit attacks.
Unsurprisingly poisonless, dancing edge-less fuuma shuriken hits the lowest
Katon hits for slightly more, from shorter range but AoE.
Fuuma Shuriken with poison hits for more but still far from Raiton
Fuuma Shuriken with dancing edge and poison hits for nearly as much as Raiton but still less.
And quite frankly if you are already at melee range might as well use Suiton.
Suiton alone hits for about two third of Katon and Fuuma.
The stealth attack can range from:
Poisonless dancing edge-less trick attack to the face (hits for as much as normal FS), to
Poison + dancing edge + sneak attack to the face (nearly twice as much as Raiton)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Stuff

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Except that weaving 3-step mudras unnecessarily is bad. In a group situation, you should be using a 3-step mudra once a minute (down-time/phase changes not with-standing). In solo play it is largely irrelevant, as all solo content is face-roll anyway.

Also, it isn't just damage you need to think about. Raiton will pretty much always clip your GCD, meaning that it can sometimes actually lead to a DPS loss over the course of a fight. (Especially true near the beginning of a patch cycle when SkS may be higher than you want.) If you really want to get technical, then you need to work out your full GCD timer, then take a large sample of Raiton/Fuma weaving to work out how much each clips your GCD by. Then you can do some maths to work out which combinations of buffs/debuffs make the extra clipping from Raiton worth it.
(Just in case you don't fancy doing this, Shasta's NIN guide has a section on this very thing already.)

Yes the other issue I mentioned. When you finish applying the dots you pretty much have to reapply them again. It would help a lot if Shadow Fang, Dancing Edge and Armor Crush would form a single combo line. Using a mundra all but guarantees that at least one of the dots will come off. So why not make it count and do something that hits like a truck?

No. No, it doesn't. Sounds like you need to practice more.

I think it would be cool if we got some sort of skill that reapplied shadow fang and mutilate, similar to what iron jaws does. Just my thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Balipu

- Fuma shuriken
Another special case. It is the first ninjutsu skill we get and one of the very few that actually makes you feel like a ninja. But sadly it's not really that useful in a fight. It's longer range doesn't see much use with ninja being a melee class and all, and even Katon hits harder. For AoE damage. It is supposedly stronger than Raiton if you have Dancing Edge, a Machinist with Hypercharge a poison and bad latency, but that is a very big IF. I like the look of finishing a boss with a huge ninja star so I tend to throw one at bosses at 1% health, but that's for show. Besides it has 3 different mundra combinations. It might be better to turn those three into three diffferent kinds of shuriken with more creative effects. Mundra combinations in general are a good way to give us more skills withouth filling the action bar. Give a short range shuriken with knockback or a Mortal Kombat style kunai with a lance to draw in enemies, or a shower of smaller shuriken for AoE damage. Anything.

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One thing I'm surprised nobody's mentioned about Fuma yet: it's your only physical ninjutsu, and there are some targets that reflect magic damage. It's the entire reason melee dps target Levi's tail instead of his head, so if you try to attack him with any jutsu besides Fuma, YOU'LL be the one taking damage instead. It's the only example of this situation that I can think of, but I'm sure there are others in harder content (or might be others in future content).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elizar_Naki

One thing I'm surprised nobody's mentioned about Fuma yet: it's your only physical ninjutsu, and there are some targets that reflect magic damage. It's the entire reason melee dps target Levi's tail instead of his head, so if you try to attack him with any jutsu besides Fuma, YOU'LL be the one taking damage instead. It's the only example of this situation that I can think of, but I'm sure there are others in harder content (or might be others in future content).

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Well it was mentioned kinda because that's why it benefits from all the buffs and damage bonuses that make it hit almost as hard as raiton if you have all of those up. But you need to be in mlee range for DE anyway so a better idea in my oppinion would be to scale Fuuma damage based on range from target. The farther you are the more kinetic force it has when it hits, so the higher the damage.

Yeah Leviathan is a special case. Every other ninjutsu is useless there. But at least you have all your other skills.

On topic: If hyoton is so good for PVP, why not make it a PVP skill and replace it with something that has a point in PVE?

I really feel I must reply to this, as it reeks of personal bias and has no hint of resource or fact to it. I don't like people requesting change based on misinformation or the like.

Throwing dagger is a rather weak 120 potency ranged attack for for 120 TP. rather lackluster, and overshadowed by mudras if they are off cooldown. Shouldnt need to use it much, but its absolutley perfect for ranged lulls (hiding behind X thing for mechanic Y) or even as something you throw out to engage. Hardly "useless" or "unused"

Fuma shuriken.... oh dear... I'm not the type to state things so shallowly or bluntly, but not a thing you said about Fuma shuriken was factual or correct. Aside from katon having higher potency IN AoE SITUATIONS. How DARE a skil that can hit multiple targets do more damage than an ability that only hits 1! HAX! I call HAX!!! In all seriousness though, AoE on Ninja is laughable, but shuriken has literally nothing to do with AoE.
No, the power of shuriken is it's the easiest and fastest Mudra, is ranged, and in a bubble (meaning no added effects like hypercharge or reqiuem), it's NIN's highest single potency ability... off the global cooldown. Sorry. i'f you're not using shuriken because it "says" 240 potency, you're simply not playing ninja well....at all. It's very much equivalent to a Tank not using CDs or a Healer refusing to use cleric stance.

Without a MCH or a BRD, Fuma should be your default and first option to use over other mudras. Raiton is superior only under the Kassasu crit. because Mudra failing/GCD clipping is a thing.

Not going to touch on shadewalker /smokescreen. If you don't see the value in allowing the Tank and other DPS do even more damage with no downsides, I don't know what else I could say to make you understand that.

Poisons- well.. I can half agree with your assessment. you can't ignore the 20% bonus damage, though forgetting to reapply it isn't a weakness of the job. its a lacking part on your end to remember, and a lacking part of the overall mechanics of the game. Seriously, poisons are HARDLY the only skill that gets removed from level sync. Tanks lose their tank stance and have to reapply them. Fix level sync first.
That part out of the way, there's alot of potential for poisons that we just cant capitalize on. one stance is a silence, the other is a stun. theyre off the global cooldown letting us "stance dance" better than both WAR AND healers, but no real choice between them. you pick one for a stun, stun the thing, and switch back to silence so you dont screw over the 3 CC timer. I want more variation to what the poisons apply.

Hyoton is useless in PvE. Binds in PvP however, are quite powerful. While PvP is a tacked-on and mostly an afterthought for FF14, simply removing that ability in PvP just because PvE exists woult ONLY harm ninja. its a net loss without compensation. I do not approve.

Now onto the more concerning thing... The "problem" that DoTs and Debuffs "dont last long enough and don't hit hard enough". Ok, I'll give you a rundown. the reason you lose DPS if you deviate from this is because that's the definition and application of a "rotation". a series of abilities used in order to maximize effectiveness.
While I do agree that "hitting like a truck" is SUPER satisfying, those DoTs you "have" to apply are HARDLY wet noodles. you reapply them BECAUSE they hit like a truck..... but more subtly... yknow... subtle... like ninjas are. you stabbed them somewhere and now they're bleeding out. sure, you didn't lop their arm off, but now their kidneys are failing...because you stole them.

just to put numbers and mechanics here for you;
Shadow Fang does 200 potency by itself, and has a 40potency DoT over 18s. DoTs tick for potency every 3s. math math math, we gett 200+ 40x6= 440 potency. thats a whole 80 more potency than Aeolian edge from behind! GASP! but... what about mutilate? you get that early! that has to be weaker! 60 potency and a 30 potency DoT over 30 seconds- math math math- 60+30x10= 360... the SAME as Aeolian edge!?
Now knowing that DoTs do more damage with an increased duration, you're effectively asking for HIGHER potency DoTs, which we just established are your hardest hitters, AND having the freedom to have a single burst damage attack? Move over, Monk, we have a NEW best DPS in town!

Honestly, I feel DoTs fit NIN as a class fantasy more than pulling out a mallet 3x your size and bonking people with it. The job and it's nuance are just a bit more expanded beyond your experience. Practice makes perfect. Honestly, people devote their LIVES to the art of the Ninja and still cannot master it. You must hone your mind AND your body...young grasshopper.

Fuma Shuriken should be an oGCD.

Throwing a Shuriken is up there with being a basic job action for NIN in the FF series as much as Jump is for DRG and Darkwave (Dark Passenger) is for DRK, therefore 30 second oGCD!