Hard mode dungeons/Primals - are they needed for story progression???

The Hard Mode versions of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan aren't exactly hard core content. They are harder than Normal Mode, yes, but not all that much harder. The Extreme versions of the primals, now they are a fair bit harder and not for the faint of heart - but luckily nothing is gated behind those that I know of.
As an aside HM Ifrit, Garuda, Titan are also needed for unlocking Coils of Bahamut.

Well I have zero interest in raiding so unlocking content like that isn't a concern for me .. however, shocked as I am to say it I managed to progress and unlock Steps of Faith, Titan Hard proved 'interesting' and I died with him at around 3% while healing the tank, so tenth time lucky I guess, though I will never, ever do it an 11th time!

I presume that everyone is so over-geared now in comparison when I as trying to progress my WHM at the end of 2013 that mistakes aren't as fatal as they were.

I constantly see (and often help with) people on the PF looking to do hard mode primals and some dungeons unsynced for the MSQ. Makes it way faster and since you get the new player bonus even for unsynced, it's win win for everybody.
As of the last patch you actually have to do Titan hard mode YET AGAIN by the way lol

Having to do the first 3 hard mode primals is more due to the quest giver being varying degrees of unavalable later in the MSQ. That would just be the lump sum as to why they need to be done. I'd say divide the quest so the quest giver's part is over with allowing you to continue the MSQ and have each GC guy you talk to give out the rest of the respective HM primal's unlock questline.

I guess what I am having an issue with is the fact that the two people closest to me in RL, and who now play this game with me twice a week, are casual players who only ever played things like EverQuest and will soon have to face hard modes like titan, ifrit, etc, despite the game passing itself off as a somewhat casual one during the trial period.

If a game developer like Square Enix is going to take a game like this and pass it off as being playable by casual gamers, then Square Enix should also make available much easier, "Story Mode" versions of those primals so that those casual players with lesser ability, can still complete them for the MSQ.

All SE has to do, is make them available, then limit Exp/Gil/Item rewards for them, as well as not counting toward any achievement. I wouldn't mind running something like that with them after doing my own at intended difficulty, because I'd like to see them get thru it at least. Plus, repeated run thru's could help prep them for the next harder level of difficulty.

In my opinion, once you get to end of ARR, its almost as if SE was saying "Sorry buddy, everything is hard mode now, but we're fine with having taken your money you spent on this game, expansions and subscription fees when we made you think this was actually intended for casual players...chump lol". At least that is what it feels like to me. I can handle the hard modes, right now they certainly cannot.

I'm not suggesting eliminating hard or extreme modes, simply offer the additional option for "story mode".

This thread is from 2016, but...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldeWolfe

I'm not suggesting eliminating hard or extreme modes, simply offer the additional option for "story mode".

---

Beyond Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda HM, “HM” is in name only. The fights are the “story modes”, and they aren’t exactly hard. Especially at this point 2 expansions later.

In addition to what Hyomin said above, the game already gives you the option of engaging the "easy mode" on non-current trials via the undersized party option.
Just run the trial with them unsynced where you can control the pace the fight is going or grab a full party from the Party Finder and steamroll through them.

And that's not taking into account the powercreep that trivializes most ARR content even when synced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldeWolfe

will soon have to face hard modes like titan, ifrit, etc, despite the game passing itself off as a somewhat casual one during the trial period.

---

"Hard Mode" is a bit of misnomer. What it actually means in this game is that it's a trial or dungeon that you return to again at a higher level than when you first went there.

So the so-called "hard mode" of the Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda fights is essentially just a way of distinguishing their level 50 versions from their initial level 20, 34, and 44 versions. The only thing harder about them is being at a higher level. The increase in mechanics is in line with other increases as you go up in levels, like the fact that level 34 Titan has more mechanics than level 20 Ifrit, and level 44 Garuda has more than either of them. Their "hard mode" versions are simply the level 50 point in that same progression.

The same goes for an assortment of optional "hard mode" dungeons that open up then as well, ones that are set in the same locations as lower level dungeon runs, but re-worked to a level 50 version. And then there's a few like that in the expansions as well. We refer to the first, lower level version as "story mode" and the higher level return as "hard mode", but they're essentially the same difficulty relative to their level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldeWolfe

I guess what I am having an issue with is the fact that the two people closest to me in RL, and who now play this game with me twice a week, are casual players who only ever played things like EverQuest and will soon have to face hard modes like titan, ifrit, etc, despite the game passing itself off as a somewhat casual one during the trial period.

---

The 8 man re-fights of ifrit garuda and titan arent anything to be scared of. And thats all they are, is full party re-fights. They didnt magically get "hard" just because youre in a larger team. If anything, the penalty for dying is less then in the 4-man versions. Unless both your friends play healers and insist on running together, they could theoretically afk at the start of all three fights(contributing nothing at all and likely wasting some healer resources), and be done with them in less then 3 minutes each. Or they could, you know, just play the game. Ifrit still does the same mechanics they learned at level 20(nails, eruption, charge), just a few of them happen more times in a row and maybe they hit a little harder. If youve made it to 50 actively playing and understand the basics of your class you wont see these as any sort of challenge. And one more thing that bothers me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldeWolfe

... so that those casual players with lesser ability, can still complete them for the MSQ.

---

A casual player has less TIME to play, not less ability. People with less ability are just unskilled. Someone can be casual and skilled, or hardcore and unskilled. The two descriptors are measuring different things and are therefore unrelated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frizze

A casual player has less TIME to play, not less ability. People with less ability are just unskilled. Someone can be casual and skilled, or hardcore and unskilled. The two descriptors are measuring different things and are therefore unrelated.

---

Different people use the term to mean either of those things. I don't think there's a consensus on which is the correct usage.