I'm re-reading the Siliconera article, and there's this one tidbit that worries me.

I like where SE is going, I am too bored atm, but by the time 4.0 comes out we will have gold saucer (hopefully more gold saucer event and additional games), deep dungeon, aquapolis, diadem (hopefully rework for the better) , airship, pvp, ex primals, more dungeons, 24 man raid, savage, and whatever they add-on to from now to 4.0.

Oh, also fishing and crafting, housing, beast tribes

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

So what you're saying is they actually didn't take any risks....players noticed this and thus failed. It's content sure...it just isn't that interesting to begin with.

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Wait...so taking risks = "fundamental overhaul of game mechanics"? I think there is a big difference between "taking a risk" and "rebuilding the core of the game from the ground up". Diadem, for example, was a risk. Deep Dungeons, which feature randomized dungeons and differing leveling structures, is a risk. Lords of Vermillion, a miniature real time strategy game, is a risk. They differ drastically from the ordinary flow of things in various ways, even if they have their failings (Diadem failed to reward exploration leading to Dino island, Lords of Vermillion is hampered by the Golden Saucer queue times and console controls etc). I think it's disingenuous to say "they don't take risks" just because they haven't, for example, turned the entire game into a different genre. You can "take risks" with new content without rebuilding your game from the ground up, which many people here seem to think is easily achievable for some reason.

One thing to keep in mind is that Fundamental changes (such as switching from vertical to horizontal progression) are an absolutely major, extremely expensive and insanely risky endeavor. It's not like in a 3-month patch the Devs can be like "Let's re-do our entire itemization structure! And change every class and job!". It's an enormous amount of work, and something that needs to be approached very carefully. It's the kind of thing only an expansion can realistically add to a game, not a 3-month patch. Honestly, compared to other games, the 3-month patches are already pretty generous with content, though I agree that the system isn't perfect and can use a variety of improvements.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

Wait...so taking risks = "fundamental overhaul of game mechanics"? I think there is a big difference between "taking a risk" and "rebuilding the core of the game from the ground up". Diadem, for example, was a risk. Deep Dungeons, which feature randomized dungeons and differing leveling structures, is a risk. Lords of Vermillion, a miniature real time strategy game, is a risk. They differ drastically from the ordinary flow of things in various ways, even if they have their failings (Diadem failed to reward exploration leading to Dino island, Lords of Vermillion is hampered by the Golden Saucer queue times and console controls etc). I think it's disingenuous to say "they don't take risks" just because they haven't, for example, turned the entire game into a different genre.

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If their "Risks" are something like Diadem, then I'm afraid for the future content, because diadem is incredibly underutilized and feels really short sighted for content. It's supposed to be one of the flagship content for the expansion (alongside with FC airships and FC crafting), but we haven't seen true update for it since it came out in 3.1. Instead all it is more fighting of mobs that have very little interactions or variety (which honestly is the same for aquapolis, the difference is that it gives rare items, but even that lost its novelty for me after the first few days). Likewise with LoV with how the queuing even works, and even The Feast with how ambitious they are in regards to a ranked ladder (despite knowing that the issues of both solo match making and partied win trading had already existed during pre-season and even before that in regards to the latter)

Likewise with my expectation of deep dungeons; even if they try to give it a rogue like feel to it, I have very little hope to believe that we aren't otherwise just fighting imps that spam blizzard, succubi that have a radial AoE that needs to be stunned, ground targeted fireballs, and dual wielding gargoyle that'll do radial damage to our melees with the occasionally linear beams. If that's really the case, them I'm just going to get bored of it after getting the rewards, and bored by the tedium of all they do is up the hp and damage as we move down.

The release of the expansion itself did very little to change anything up, can you honestly say something like FC crafting, MCH/BRD being so similar to each other, or the handling of red scrips would allow for something big to be built on top of it? We can't even physically interact with our airships despite it being one of the iconic additions to the expansion. It really doesn't make for much of a framework for future additions...like the actual use of the airships. You have people say "well they are trying something new"...but honestly with the result, I feel like exactly just that; they're trying something new...for the sake of trying something new. More often than not, this is something that just gets put on the backburner and left behind, completely forgotten about; this is going on with diadem right now, we haven;t seen an update for it in 2 patch cycles, as well as LoV itself, and I doubt aquapolis is going to get any further additions aside from another tier or added loot. That should never b the case, otherwise we're just gonna end up with a game that has so many scattered, fragmented fluff you even wonder why it's there (see Pvp in general with each new release)

And yet all the new additions involving the combat classes did not have players approach the content in a unique and interesting way. Diadem turned out to be an hour long mob fatefest, Aquapolis can be enjoyable but is just a treasure map extender, Deep Dungeons will amount to a dungeon simulator though I will reserve judgment as it hasn't been released and no one has gone through it yet.

I care not for minigames but if queue times are an issue that may accentuate that players care little for it.

Perhaps I am too harsh and perhaps they did take risks...but for me and for others they didn't risk enough...did not keep their promise on what was conceptualized on paper and in effect the "risk wasn't worth the reward".

Horizontal progression is as you said a huge "risk" and it is one a portion of the community that we would like to see happen. And you say it would require an expansion to implement such changes but what exactly changed from 2.0 and Heavensward?

Not much.

So what I'm getting out of this.. People want harder content so they can just throw away all that hard work come the next patch? To me that's a slap in the face.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

If their "Risks" are something like Diadem, then I'm afraid for the future content, because diadem is incredibly underutilized and feels really short sighted for content.

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The point of Diadem was freedom, they were testing the waters with content that allowed players to set their own rules about what to do or where to go, turns out themepark MMO players didn't like the lack of an arrow pointing you what to do, and letting people decide whether they want to battle or gather after getting into the instance was a really short-sighted idea, because the battle guys now couldn't get proper credit without the people who couldn't care less about battle and are only there for gathering. It was a risk, and it didn't end well on the battle side, though I do love it for gathering and the fact that stealth doesn't work. Another honorable mention is the lack of rewards from actual exploration and just encouraging endless grind instead.

Now the next diadem update will add a new map without this freedom, they're adding that list of objectives you must do to advance, because that's what the themepark MMO players seem to like, again we don't know if players will like this, so that's another risk being taken, as developing that content costs money and time, time they don't have.

As for the OP, they never even hinted they would change the formula, you can be sure the tome grind and gear with a 6 months expiration date will stay here until the game closes. Transitioning from fast vertical progression into a slow one is an overhaul and a massive risk a game that failed once shouldn't take, specially when other games with slower vertical progression aren't doing that well, slow vertical progression like XI is considered a thing of the past.

Add some type of modifier(s) you can equip to your job that let's you add changes to your skills, add unique broken abilities a la FF11, add SOMETHING please for the love of god I am growing increasingly tired of the gear being the SAME EXACT THING, stacking Crit & Det is about as unique as gets. Every job plays EXACTLY the same so skilled players will have the exact same damage & rotation as each other, it's ridiculous. The ONLY thing that makes a job feel unique from another player's is the ability to glamour your gear so it visually looks different, in reality you play exactly the same as everybody else. Sure it keeps things balanced(sorta) but it always is very restricted & monotonous.

You are exactly alike to anyone who properly plays their job, doing the same 2 dungeons for the same lore for the same armor so you can do the same 2 dungeons slightly faster until the next patch. I try not to think about this but it is the truth & it sounds pretty boring when you hear it.

You want to deal the highest damage? There is ONE specific rotation you HAVE to follow move for move for every single class or you're automatically weaker than pro players no matter how hard you try. There is no identity, even every race looks almost identical to each other bc 90% of the time players choose the one cute face so chances are you look exactly like 50,000 other players & if you have the same job & play perfectly you do the exact same rotation, therefore the ONLY bit of true uniqueness is the 100s of outfits to choose from.


It sucks :/ I really love this game but honestly I am holding out for 4.0 adding something new but if it really is just 3.0 again(maybe only one Ex dungeon this time)....Idk. I give up.

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Originally Posted by Elky

You enjoy monotony?

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Sheesh. Take a break already. You appear to find little joy in this game anymore -- move on!

"Klytus, I'm bored. What play thing can you offer me today?"

You'll probably be disappointed if you think 4.0 will drastically change the game. Seeing as they seem to be ok with how 3.x did it will probably be more of the same with a new coat of paint.