Wanderer's Minuet Help

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Originally Posted by Krindor

Just like in real life, if people don't like the way you are and you refuse to change they are going to leave you.

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In real life reasonable people understand that everybody is unique and bring unique qualities and traits into any situation. They don't expect everybody to be a cookie cutter replica of how things were "intended". If that were the case then everybody would be 100% identical and life would be boring.

http://en.spongepedia.org/images/3/3d/Normal.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tango185

In real life reasonable people understand that everybody is unique and bring unique qualities and traits into any situation. They don't expect everybody to be a cookie cutter replica of how things were "intended". If that were the case then everybody would be 100% identical and life would be boring.

http://en.spongepedia.org/images/3/3d/Normal.jpg

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Uniqueness can both be positive and negative, but performing less than intended is negative. Nin wasn't played like SE was intended, people were outperforming what SE intended which was why they had to nerf it, that is positive. In real life it would be the difference between a group of people wanting to aim for a mid level grade, they wouldn't pick up someone that barely wants to pass.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

they wouldn't pick up someone that barely wants to pass.

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Who said I barely want to pass? You're the epitome of the toxicity that plagues the gaming community. You assume my wanting to have fun playing a game means that I barely want to pass? There shouldn't be anything wrong with wanting to have fun. I'm not intentionally trying to ruin anybody else's time, I'm just trying to enjoy my own and I'm getting grief for it.

Like I previously said, this is my first MMORPG. I've only played for about a year. I don't have the years of experience with these types of games as others have. I didn't play EQ or WOW or anything of the sort. I'm learning as fast as I can and trying to contribute the best I can given certain circumstances. Sometimes those circumstances are feeling the need to move around more often than WM makes me comfortable with. I'm still trying so give me a dang break. Being a jerk to players not as advanced as you is not needed.

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Originally Posted by Tango185

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I never said that you didn't, I commented on the "I pay so I play how I want", the majority of players with this view perform significanlty worse, most barely pass what people were doing at level 50. I'm not going to kick someone for not performing optimally, actually I would provide them with tips on how to improve, however I would kick someone for refusing to improve when they are doing awful.

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Originally Posted by Tango185

Sometimes those circumstances are feeling the need to move around more often than WM makes me comfortable with. I'm still trying so give me a dang break. Being a jerk to players not as advanced as you is not needed.

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If your problem is movement, then try...not moving (just hear me out).
Sometimes, I, too, also ran around like a headless chicken while playing Bard. Is this good? No, especially if you haven't locked onto the target; if you move and you aren't facing the enemy, your auto attacks do not hit (non WM obviously). So, too much movement is a problem BEFORE WM. Honestly you do NOT need to move so much as a bard (unless you've been tasked with something like kiting an enemy of course, but I'm talking about normal fighting). Everytime I see one of those bards I want to grab their shoulders and go "Sit. Still."

Of course you aren't born great at a game or a specific class. If people fault you for learning, then ignore them. But learning also means going out of your comfort zone. I died tons of times getting used to WM. "Oops cant stand there" or "gotta start stutter casting sooner, welp" or even "man I haven't actually shot off a skill in like ten seconds because this bullshit is chasing me. should i undo WM? or- (insert more overthinking)" or my favorite "sorry guys my laptop is such a piece of shit I can't get out of AOEs in time" (thankfully my new computer fixed that one...cough). Sometimes I still Repel Shot off a ledge.

This isn't my first MMO but it is my first MMO where I truly played with other people. It's a good "first" MMO. If you don't have a set group to run with you WILL run into jerks, it's inevitable. If they hate you for """slowing a run""" then so be it. Really, if you've been max level now for a few months, you should have basic dungeon runs and most content down with having Minuet up all the time. I know having fun is a big part of it, but don't you want to have fun AND better yourself as a player? If you're having trouble, then ask for help from other bards.

Sorry, guh, started rambling. There's no tldr for this.

Wanderer's Minuet should be up most of the time at level 60, however that is not because it is the best option for each GCD — it is simply because there is enough to be gained over the time you're locked into it for 15 seconds to make up for the lost auto-attacks over that duration. This will of course vary with interrupts that may occur due to necessary movement or damage taken. As such, it should not be applied with 15 seconds of any phase in which you are uncomfortable with or unable to sufficiently stutter-step, or have too few mobile GCD options (Straighter Shot and Feint, the latter a dps loss compared to dropping WM if no oGCDs are usable during that time), such as Sephirot Ex's blue pillar phase.

Even at level 60 it is a (temporary) DPS loss if you have no attacks available over the GCD (including oGCD abilities and the weaponskills both) that would gain at least 83 potency from the 30% damage bonus, essentially the amount of average AA damage lost during that time due to WM.

Actual AA damage will be a bit more complicated, as it occurs periodically rather than as a stream, of course, which means maximizing proximity to its particular nodes (such that you typically want to swap back into WM just after an AA). Your first AA should go off within a half second of entering combat or being able again to auto-attack (so, upon dropping WM), and then you will have another AA weapon speed interval before the next 33.3*seconds-delay potency hits. If you switch back to WM just before that second shot would go off, it is wasted. As such, keeping your weapon speed in mind can be beneficial in stance-dancing. Try to figure out how many GCDs + half-GCDs (oGCD animations, if you can double-weave) that would be.

So, over a particular GCD (the simplest way to look at it)
Windbite: 330 --> 429. 99 bonus. Worth it.
Venomous Bite: 310 --> 403. 93 bonus. Worth it.
Heavy Shot: 150 potency --> 195 with WM. 45 bonus. Not worth.

However, these need to be considered in terms of the damage that can be dealt over the GCD (or, better yet, over time). That means factoring in oGCDs as well:
Heavy Shot + Repelling Shot: 230 --> 299. 69 bonus. Almost worth.
Heavy Shot + Sidewinder: 450 --> 585. 135 bonus. Obviously worth.
Feint + Sidewinder: 420 --> 546. 126 bonus. Obviously worth.

Any time you're not using an oGCD during WM, you're essentially wasting 30% of its cooldown as far as damage over time goes.

As with everything, there may be situations in which it's worth it to do so. For instance, an 3.1-second auto attack at 103 potency could be worth more to try to fit within your CD window than a given Blunt Arrow. You might instead drop WM for a half-GCD (last shot was casted) only to fire the AA once and turn it back on, or because you only have HS and SS shots coming up and Bloodletter's being totally elusive, you might even pop Blunt Arrow while outside of WM, losing the 9s worth of its damage in favor of getting in more AAs until IJ or EA are ready to be used again, because there would be at least a few GCDs (almost the lost duration) before you'd be back in WM unless Bloodletter pops (the WM bonus of which is equal to an AA with Straight Shot, slightly better with Heavy Shot, and much better with any stronger weaponskill at the ready). Consider your chances on River of Blood (refreshed BL / RoD) procs, but be decisive rather than hesitant, especially if you're playing to your CDs.

The real bonuses to WM though are the unique abilities, Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaws. Whereas you want WM up for every Sidewinder, Flaming Arrow, Bloodletter, Rain of Death, Wide Volley/Quick Nock on more than 2 enemies, or pretty much any AoE or oGCD, you can't even use your two best weaponskills without WM.

Empyreal Arrow does 240 potency (312 in non-WM terms), but does it over a half-GCD, or if following a Straighter Shot or Feint (which have no cast time in WM) as an oGCD. (I'll let others cover how worth it it is to hold off on using EA in order to use it as a oGCD instead of a half-GCD. Just know that it's strong.)

Iron Jaws does 100 instant potency, same as Venomous Bite, but refreshes BOTH Windbite and Venomous Bite at once for a total of 580 potency (754 in non-WM terms), while freeing up an additional GCD, making a difference of yet another 50 or 90 potency by allowing a Heavy Shot in place of a Venomous Bite or Windbite refresh. It is in many ways the strongest weaponskill in the game.

WM must be up in time to refresh DoTs with Iron Jaws. Any exceptions to this rule are nearly inexistant and would require an earlier mistake. In some cases, you will even waste the extra Heavy Shot opportunity to refresh your DoTs regardless of their remaining duration to double-dip into your CDs (refreshing just after popping Raging Strikes, etc., and then again just before the CDs, and the DoTs, would fall off). And, of course you want to be hitting each EA as quickly as possible. As such, most WM weaves, if stance-dancing, will begin and end with an EA and/or IJ.


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Long, but I hope that'll be informative for you.

I actually did a macro for iron jaws.
/macroicon "iron jaws"
/ac "iron jaws"
<wait.14>
/e DOTS <se.7>

This way I hear a little ping (that only i can hear) at just the right time when it's time to use iron just again to refresh my bites.
It works for me because I don't have to pay as much attention to the timers.

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Originally Posted by nexas506

I actually did a macro for iron jaws.
/macroicon "iron jaws"
/ac "iron jaws"
<wait.14>
/e DOTS <se.7>

This way I hear a little ping (that only i can hear) at just the right time when it's time to use iron just again to refresh my bites.
It works for me because I don't have to pay as much attention to the timers.

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That's actually pretty brilliant. I'm stealing this. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Tsilyi

Which encounters make you feel this way?

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Sephirot Ex, 3rd phase -_- I toggled that off and on plenty during that part of the fight when it came out. Still maintained the dots, straight shot/heavyshot etc, but the gcd abilities may have had to wait until a mechanic that allowed me to switch modes.

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Originally Posted by LordPhantomhive

Sephirot Ex, 3rd phase -_- I toggled that off and on plenty during that part of the fight when it came out. Still maintained the dots, straight shot/heavyshot etc, but the gcd abilities may have had to wait until a mechanic that allowed me to switch modes.

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Off and on occasionally during an encounter is always acceptable. The player I was responding to advocated simply turning it off either for a whole encounter or for the remainder of the rest of an encounter.