I just realised... are we L'cie? [Possible 3.2 spoilers]

Echo Users and L'cie have one major diffrence, We are Chosen but are not required to follow Hydaelyn or even Zodiark. We still posses our freewill and the power who's side, if any, we take.

L'cie are slaves, Branded and Cursed by psudo-gods who have no care for their well being. Your "Reward" for succeeding is being imprisoned in Crystal until they have use for you again and you punishment for disobedience is even worse than death.

So no, our freewill alone means we are not L'cie. We may be blessed by Hydaelyn and havr been selected as her chosen one, but we also chose to follow her. At no point did she force us.

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

It's worth remembering that l'cie were also in Type-0, and in that game, the Fal'cie were actually the crystals of each city, and were pretty much tasked with keeping that crystal in particular safe.

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By forcing all four nation's to forget those that died so that the endless cycle of conflict would not be hindered by lost loved ones. IMO, The Four Crystals of Orience were just as bad as The Fal'cie. The Orience L'cie even bear the brands of Lindsie and Pulse so small wknder the crystals are evil.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

We may be blessed by Hydaelyn and have been selected as her chosen one, but we also chose to follow her. At no point did she force us.

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I'm not sure we actually know that. It's sort of a passive blackmail, so to speak. Let's look at a really vague hypothetical.

What if our personal goals, while admirable, conflicted with Hydaelyn's? Yet, what if pursuing those said goals required Hydaelyn's strength?

That's the thing about being "chosen." If the one who chose us chooses to, er, unchoose us (which is seemingly possible, given Middy), what then? What if we need Her strength but don't agree with Her, for whatever reason? So, in essence, we would be forced to follow Her against our will in order to pursue the goals, or give them up. That's not to say we should be using the strength of the Mothercrystal for selfish reasons, but you could have completely altruistic goals for a region, like Eorzea, that conflict with Her larger-scale, world-wide viewpoint.

Which could be a reason why one may choose to follow Zodiark instead.

Belated edit: I know it's a bit much to ask for in a Final Fantasy game, but I'd really like to see XIV go the way of deconstructing the idea of a "chosen one" trope, a bit like XIII did. We've been playing it painfully straight.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I know it's a bit much to ask for in a Final Fantasy game, but I'd really like to see XIV go the way of deconstructing the idea of a "chosen one" trope, a bit like XIII did. We've been playing it painfully straight.

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The entire thing so far has been epic deconstruction fodder, but it's liable to go bad in the fridge if they leave it alone too much longer.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

That's the thing about being "chosen." If the one who chose us chooses to, er, unchoose us (which is seemingly possible, given Middy), what then?

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The problem with this is that we, apparently, don't need Hydaelyn. Our adventures with Middy made that very clear. We went on the entire journey, killed a few dragons, and felled a few primals without divine intervention. Given the strength we obtained, it wouldn't be unusual if Hydaelyn's gift wasn't actually inhibiting us from realizing our potential. Even the Ascians acknowledged that we were growing beyond the limits of men and women, and were encroaching on the domain of gods. Then there's Thordan's cryptic dying question: "what are you?" The implications that we have outgrown our mortal restraints are mounting.

The evidence suggests that we never really needed Hydaelyn in the first place. So, if she were to "un-choose" us, it's foreseeable that we would simply overcome her. This shouldn't be too far out of the realm of possibility, given that the current path that we are on would eventually see us overcoming a being of equal or similar strength, Zodiark.

Honestly? I'd like them to do away with the 'WoL' arc entirely after a certain point. I want to invest in this game for as long as possible and I hope there's going to be numerous expansions in the future. At the same time, though, I really don't want the same cycle of the WoL conveniently overcoming every obstacle emerging in their path.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Honestly? I'd like them to do away with the 'WoL' arc entirely after a certain point.

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My personal hope is that either this arc or the next will end with the WoL "dying" in some capacity that (of course) keeps the PC alive but strips away all the powers we have that aren't directly game mechanics (for real this time). This would get rid of what we represent symbolically, the so-called "beacon of hope", and the loss of a magic-bullet solution would leave the people of Eorzea to confront their problems themselves, and all the individual growth that comes with it.

Ultimately, this would just free the PC to pursue the more incognito style of world-saving where everyone doesn't know your name, and our allies become valuable for all the things they can do which we can't.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

My personal hope is that either this arc or the next will end with the WoL "dying" in some capacity that (of course) keeps the PC alive but strips away all the powers we have that aren't directly game mechanics (for real this time). This would get rid of what we represent symbolically, the so-called "beacon of hope", and the loss of a magic-bullet solution would leave the people of Eorzea to confront their problems themselves, and all the individual growth that comes with it.

Ultimately, this would just free the PC to pursue the more incognito style of world-saving where everyone doesn't know your name, and our allies become valuable for all the things they can do which we can't.

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Something like that would need an event that is elaborate, public and on a scope where everyone is convinced that the WoL, literally or figuratively, is no more. possibilities are:

• A battle with Zodiark, which takes both the Echo and the Blessing away afterwards. Also destabilizing the aetheric balance
• A Battle with HYDEALYN, with the exact same results as above
• Both, with the result playing similar to XII, with the Divine puppet-masters (or potential puppetmasters) dead and man's fate back in their hands. Also with little effect on the metaphysics since both the alleged gods of Light and Dark are destroyed
• Some sort of time travel stuff like during the Calamity. Complete with amnesia of the affected people, only more irrecoverable
• The Warriors of Darkness somehow stealing our crystals, forcing us to attempt to get them back, only with the result of the attempt being that the Warriors of Darkness die and the crystals lost
• Something about Elidibus' "The TruthTM"
• Or a deliberate tarnishing of the Warrior's reputation, likely necessitated by the people's faith in them unwillingly turning them into a primal, meaning they have to give up their powers or else become the bane of the realm they sworn to protect

Of course a few of these are too elaborate or climatic to be used in 3.X, but I guess it depends on how long are they gonna stretch the Ascian/Primal subplot and if they can make Raids without tying it into Primals somehow

I think the WoL actually has a fare bit more free will than people give credit for. I don't think Hydaelyn is controlling us against our will. Hell one of the first things she ever said to us was 'think'. That's not something you tell someone who you want to not act independent. Hydaelyn has actually given us very few commands and most of them have been pretty vague.

Now short of another 'everyone forgets the WoL' I don't see us losing our fame. I think the best chance at being an unknown is if and when we travel out of Eorzea. Even then I doubt we will be an unknown for long. Generally if you go around saving the world you get famous pretty quickly. Grand heroics tend to draw attention.

I don't think the WoL plot will ever go away but I can see it falling into the background somewhat. While its really becoming center stage at the moment, it overall is a meta plot that runs through all aspects of the game and which I don't think we will see a final resolution to any time soon. It will be something going on vaguely in the background. I'm pretty sure I did see them say that the Ascians would become less prominent in 4.0 for at least a while. Our blessing powers depend a great deal of Hydaelyn and I could easily see it taking a toll on her the more we use it so relying on it less and perhaps more on the echo which seems independent of her is something I can see happening. Really the WoL has barely used their echo in any active way. As an echo user we are very basic in its use.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I'm not sure we actually know that. It's sort of a passive blackmail, so to speak. Let's look at a really vague hypothetical.

What if our personal goals, while admirable, conflicted with Hydaelyn's? Yet, what if pursuing those said goals required Hydaelyn's strength?

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Thing is, The Path of the Twelve were all echo users gifted by Hydaelyn herself. BUT not all echo users were Warriors of Light, some chose to use their gift selfishly. And Hydaylen was OK with that. Even Midguardsormr wasn't able to remove the Echo from us, only The Blessing of Light granted by the Six Crystals.

So Hydaelyn (unlike Pulse, Lindsei, and Etro to an extent) doesnt force our obidence but she does reward it. The Fal'cie not only expect absolute loyalty, but sevearly punish insubordination.