Stop telling Tanks not to use provoke there is a place to use it when pulling mobs.

I pull with provoke if the group is spread out. It forces them to run at me and clump together - where I can flash s I run through.

At 60 you won't lose hate on AoE.

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Originally Posted by Rocond

That would be horrible advice. Good advice would be to make sure they understand how the ability works, not just some blanket statement of don't use it for pulling. I pull with it all the time to gather up trash and i'm pretty sure I got a handle on tanking in this game.

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That's an awesome answer. People get muddled if they are just given directions with no explanation why. People should always seek to understand things themselves instead of blindly following a rule they were told which may not apply to all situations. A lot of people also get stuck in a routine of doing runs a certain way they've seen done, instead of gaining enough understanding of mechanics to modify and improve their methods as increased gear levels create opportunities to change tactics.

I still regularly get people yelling at me for using medica 2, even though i don't pull hate with it. It's always a dps or the other healer, though, so I don't worry about it.

I remember having an argument with someone back in the days of LotA. I was complaining about how another tank voked IG off of me and tanked it in front of a comet with a bunch of people standing behind it causing a wipe. The person I was debating with could not give a shit about how the other tank caused a wipe and instead focused on how I pulled IG with provoke.

The thing about IG in that fight is that he spawns with built up enmity, therefore pulling it with tomahawk will just have him running straight into the middle. So I have to provoke, otherwise a comet will explode.

All of your replies are super valid. I just wanted to refresh this topic because Ive been victim of and witness to players saying not to use provoke even when its clearly helpful, and it slows down clears having to explain my and others use of it. Its almost like its hard for some to let it go. Most players I think are trying to be helpful but misinformed.

The best reason I can thjnk of to use provoke to pull is the range. The most obvious use that comes to mind was in Wanderers Palace back when it was new. There was a set of stairs where you triggered the Tonberry patrolling the hall behind you when you passed a certain point. However, if you got it right, you could target and provoke the mob at thetop of the stairs, to reduce the number of mobs in the trash pack as you ran forward. This was before WP was nerfed and completely overgeared. You could alsouse it to pull certain monsters in AK - again before it was nerfed and overgeared. It's very useful to yank a specific moster from a pack at distance because you dont have to aggro the entire group. Shieldlob is useful too, but it's lower range means you may aggro the pack. That said, I'd definitely recommend getting comfortable with shield lob or tomahawk, before starting to use provoke for ranged pulls.

jp players pull with voke all the time sometimes they don't even pull just run up flash and attack.

There's very few places where I feel its OK to pull with Provoke (and most I only can think of right before I get to them during a run lol); two of the biggest ones from 2.0 are that Succubus on the other side of that room in AK, and the Tonberries on the stairs in the last corridor of Wanderer's Palace. I'll sometimes use it to grab another set of mobs during a speed-run (last set of mobs before the first boss of Neverreap, but only if I was pulling the entire island at once; if the pull was split in two I'd use my ranged attack instead), but I can't say that I always will pull them every time (depends on how the Healer and other DPS are in the dungeon). But as a general rule, I will not pull with Provoke, and any time I can pull with Tomahawk/Unmend/Shield Lob I will.

Most tanks that pull with provoke use it where their ranged attack is perfect, or even after they hit with it (for some reason, Lob then Provoke is how a lot of PLD pull. Even past 50. I don't even...). I've explained just how Provoke works to so many tanks, but most either done believe me or tell me I'm flat out wrong. OK, and you can parry magic damage too, right? (you don't even want to know how many tanks think you can...)

I voke all the time in dunjin pulls. Fight me.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I believe it does the same amount as any other action (a flat value [was around 70 at level 50 iirc, so probably a little more than double that now] modifiable by enmity stance)? It may be the one exception to that enmity-per-action (even if no damage/healing dealt) rule though. If you use Provoke and a pop CD while in tank stance, your party casting Eye for an Eye or Regen (or, Goad, Aetherial Manipulation, Warden's Paeon, etc.) on you won't steal threat. The first tick of said Regen almost certainly will though.

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I don't think Provoke generates any enmity, period. All it does is put you to the top of the aggro list. If I voke pull something and the healer casts Stone Skin on me before I get to follow up with a Shield Lob, the mob instantly aggros on the healer.