The people who expect too much from a monthly subscription kill this game

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Over 114 hours... if you view it as a gate, it's horrible. If you view it as 114+ hours of adventure, on the other hand...

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I agree completely. I took my time leveling the first time around. I was just saying if you were rushing to catch up with your friends, it's a bit daunting unless you have tons of free time. Some people don't care about the journey and just want to jump into the endgame with friends. I was just agreeing with Miscreant where she said that the 1-60 grind is long compared to other games.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

EDIT: 5 hours a week is not even close to average MMO player playtime, actually it's 20.
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000891.php

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I would just like to point out that the data and information used there appears to be from January of 2005. That's over a decade ago and MMO's and gamer habits have drastically changed since then. At that time, MMO's were considered more "hardcore" and "niche", where a smaller group of more dedicated players would spend more time playing these games. Since post Vanilla WoW and with the rise in popularity of MMO's and the resulting adjustments to the genre to cater to a larger player-base demographic (i.e. becoming more "casual" friendly and oriented), the average MMO gamer has changed as well and tends to be more "casual" a player than in years past.

Case in point, while 5 hours a week may or may not be less than the average playtime of a MMO gamer today, 20 hours a week is most likely not the average anymore and it is probably much lower.

50-60 hours? It took me a little over 40 if I recall correctly, and that's with doing all side quests and repeating dungeons several times.

I didn't rush thru the game. I enjoyed it and took my time. As someone who regularly raids savage I can tell you that "rushing to try the challenge" will likely end in you hitting a brick wall and feeling bad about yourself. Taking time to learn your class and perfect your abilities is paramount to clearing hardcore of high difficulty content. It isn't just about getting there. And when you've rushed to the end and haven't increased your skill in your role you would be no good to anyone. You need to have your job down like the back of your hand in this content. You aren't going to be carried or fumble your way thru it. And learning and perfecting these things often takes much longer than the story. I've spent 100's of hours learning and practicing my rotations and openers and I'm not afraid to say in farrrr from the best, but I invest the time and effort to try and push my limits. Time is absolutely important to this game in regards to hardcore content.

The reality is that square could hand you a fully leveled topped out 210 dragoon and without the experience to understand and practice the jobs you wouldn't be able to put out enough damage to even get in the front door, let alone be able to handle things like a3s. Enjoy the game for the game. Play and have fun. Practice and get better. The things you want to do will come eventually but of you aren't enjoying the ride there you likely won't like the destination either. There will always be new content to do. It isn't going anywhere. But it's about enjoying the journey to get where you want to be. Not just about getting to the destination. Stop and see the sights everyonce and a while. You'll be glad you did.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

things

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No, is not a relevant comparisong.

First, because comparing games to games is a far better comparison.

Second, because it's not just about time, is also about quality.

And third, because you are comparing it do a dying product. I mean, maybe is diferent in your country, I don't know, but in mine cinemas are just closing because with the HD TVs of more than 50 inches that almost everyone has at home now, and being so expensive as they are, people attend less to the cinema. And if they survive it's as a social activity, not for the film itself.
Hell, in fact in my city we had like 6 cinemas 10 years ago, and now there's one.



Of course people will unsub if content is not enought for them to be happy paying the subscription fee. And that doesn't mean just time. Not at all. Quality moments are far more important than time itself.

If the thread is about money for time spent, it all about perspective. Based on what other entertainment cost you get your money worth, whether you spend the entire 3 months (patch rate) or beat all the content in the first week you gotten your money worth for the month. So as long as you can spend 3-5 hours a month you get your $15 worth. Now this is just my opinion as I said earlier it all about perspective.

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Originally Posted by Elvin

No, is not a relevant comparisong.

First, because comparing games to games is a far better comparison.

Second, because it's not just about time, is also about quality.

And third, because you are comparing it do a dying product. I mean, maybe is diferent in your country, I don't know, but in mine cinemas are just closing because with the HD TVs of more than 50 inches that almost everyone has at home now, and being so expensive as they are, people attend less to the cinema. And if they survive it's as a social activity, not for the film itself.
Hell, in fact in my city we had like 6 cinemas 10 years ago, and now there's one.



Of course people will unsub if content is not enought for them to be happy paying the subscription fee. And that doesn't mean just time. Not at all. Quality moments are far more important than time itself.

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It's perfectly relevant. Point by point:

1. Ok, so compare it to other games. RPGs in general, not just MMOs, generally offer the best amount of playtime/hours entertained for their price points (although other genres may have superior replayability and such).

2. Fair enough. But that falls under "do you like RPGs or MMOs?" And, at the end of the day--when you get home from school or work or whatnot, you have X number of hours to kill. So maybe you need to do a few chores, clean up a little. Then you have time to relax. Whatever you do, you're going to want it to fill that time, not leave you bored after a short time.

3. "dying" is completely irrelevant. Compare it to the cost of buying a movie if you want, or to a cable subscription, which in the US can get pretty expensive. Compare it to any other form of friday-night entertainment you would do in the real world. Doing it on a regular basis will cost you more per hour than MMO gaming.

That doesn't mean MMO'ing replaces them; traveling or other such experiences can absolutely be 'worth it'. Just that MMO'ing is really good value (as long as you like them).

The only thing that can compete is... other games. Or a library (which I do recommend but not so many people like these days...)

It's people like OP that killed the MMO genre. If you don't have a lot of time to play video games? Great I can recommend 1,000 other games that don't require any time investment. The game is in such a sad state because they turned an MMO into a 40 hour experience!

I would never wanna work more than 40 hours in a week but I prefer 32 hours, it's more than enough for all bills and fun.