Religion is bad, M'kay?

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

That's why they're always the target of "Corrupt Church" cheep shots because they were the prime examole when the steriotype was made.

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I Think its part that(but honestly EVERY religion has its corruption issues. Every ORGANIZATION has its corruption issues.) I think its also because of the broad reconizability of Catholic visuals. Many protestant denomiantions explicitly tone down the visuals to be solumn and plain and while there are some other recognizable variants(Like Gospel singing) this isn't so strongly apparently outside the US.

Hmm, you say it happens in several ff titles but I don't see it. FFX is the obvious one, and FFXIII series, but no more. I recall a video on youtube bringing this issue up, and they mentioned Sephiroth and Kefka having heavily Christian imagery when you fight them, but that's nothing to do with religion - that's just the narcissism of these characters in question; they think they're almighty and divine when they're evil, ironic imagery. People have thoroughly gone over XIV here, but I think X and XIII follow the same rule, to a degree. XIII is...messy to get into, but ultimately you could say "good gods" and "bad gods", and more of a fate vs choice theme than anything seriously religious. Evil popes don't help though. Like others have said, if anything they like to portray religion being used as a manipulation tool rather than being outright anti-religious. And well, it's very much true in the real world - organised religion is often exploited. That doesn't mean such people represent the entirety of theism, or that to be opposed to that is to be opposed to religion. The same holds true for the cases in these games. Right from character creation we have to choose a patron deity after all.

the other big theme in FF games is the enemy always being the more technology advanced nation. At least in FF6, FF7 (Shinra) and FF14

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Originally Posted by PogueX

the other big theme in FF games is the enemy always being the more technology advanced nation. At least in FF6, FF7 (Shinra) and FF14

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This isn't exclusive to Final Fantasy.

But..the faith ISN'T evil.

It was the Thordan part of it that was getting abused.

Halone wasn't just thrown out of Ishgard and everyone became atheist - Ishgard is a pious nation. It likely always will be.

The message isn't "Religion is evil", but it is "Religion is susceptible to corruption."

The game has many religions which are spoken of quite fondly. However, that isn't to say that all religions are as pure as others. The Holy See was based on a half-truth, and the story was designed more to control the people of Ishgard rather than give them a real religion to place their faith. Those with bad intentions can take any well-meaning endeavor and twist it in to some corrupted shadow of what it should have been.

The theme isn't that religion is bad, but that religious people are rubes who don't understand what they're perpetuating. If you look at the events of the game and the history you uncover, that should be obvious (and personally, it's a narrative that is very, very believable).

So, I gotta explain where I'm coming from. When I went dragoon, I didn't know anything about Heavensward. I chose Halone before knowing anything about Ishgard, and I fell in love with the job. Then Heavensward came and I got to know everything about Ishgard, headed by a theocracy. I am a Roman Catholic, and I'm one of those who own up to our past rather than deny or make excuses for it. So I am partial to theocracy and skeptical of government comprised of 'The People" or some charismatic figure that wins a popularity contest but that's a separate issue that I don't want to discuss in this forum.

I was really stoked that there's an entire city state ran by fanatics who are very different from the tree huggers in Gridania, and whatever it is they do in Uldah, BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING. They don't treat religion in-game as if it were an extra feature of society, but is very central to them. It was all cool, until the story started including moogles and coexistence nonsense

By the end of the MSQ, I was very livid. [spoilers] The thing that pissed me off the most was the fact that they didn't have to kill Thordan. Why kill Thordan and not Ysayle during the primal fight? Why was Thordan's primal not treated like, say, Ramuh? Because all those other primals are basically pagan equivalents of Zeus, Poseidon, etc.? And Thordan is the Pope, and everyone hates the Pope and his Church, according to the writers. And if it's all about being self-righteous, why is Thordan less righteous than the Warrior of Light and his merry band of god killers? It did not seem to me that Thordan intended to be a primal all his life, but only to destroy the dragon threat, which, thanks to the most stupidest idiot moment ever, reappeared. I guess, sigh, the Warrior of Light is going to save Ishgard once again? [/spoilers]

If Square Enix does something that'll make me happy, it'll be admitting the inconsistency of the righteousness of the Warrior of Light's cause and actions, because truth be told, he's just Alphinaud's hitman for the most part, and all he does is *nod* when everyone around him already made the "moral" choices for him. Establish an organization comprised of people with dubious scruples? *nod* Undermine a thousand-year-old society locked in struggle for its survival against a pitiless enemy? *nod* Don't check pulse of a political leader after she's supposedly murdered in front of you? *nod* Stand there like a dumbass while another political leader gets his arm cut off in a middle of a coup? *nod*