The GC Gank Spank. Ideas?

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Originally Posted by Ditto

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Nice post. I like the idea, but I still think there should be a way to mitigate exp within the match. There seems to be no reward for actually doing your job or playing well. I've seen matches where there have been specific players who have carried the team to victory, catching nodes and bleeding themselves dry for the sake of defending them, but they don't get any more exp than people who run off and gank or chase the rabbit. This is wrong, and I thin it contributes to the problem of gank spanks. There should be some kind of exp bonuses for following mission objectives.
As for the Adders dislike, I find that teams tend to have it out for whatever team got in their hair the most in the previous match lol. I've been in back to back matches that had a lot of the same players, and the previous loss to one GC or another prompted them openly discriminate against that GC.

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Originally Posted by Februs

As for the Adders dislike, I find that teams tend to have it out for whatever team got in their hair the most in the previous match lol. I've been in back to back matches that had a lot of the same players, and the previous loss to one GC or another prompted them openly discriminate against that GC.

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That might explain why the Flamee have such a consistently low win rate... in pretty much every match I'm in as an Adder- if you disregard all the insults going back and forth in Alliance chat (I've been guilty of this too)- what's left is people trying to strategize pretty much the entire match. Mainly thinking about how many points we have, how many points the other teams have, and what our best plays are to not lose. I know a few people who have both Adders and Flames characters and they've been told us how in previous matches that day their team/alliance decided just to troll adders and hand the match to Maelstrom and so it's mystifying to hear people in Flames complain about not having their ADS mount. That kind of strategy backfires because the natural inclination of Adders is to focus the competition it loses to the most- which would be Maelstrom- and left alone that inclination would continue when it's Maelstrom and Flames in the lead and Adders hopelessly in 3rd. So being the team we lose to less, the only thing that's going to have Adders trying to throw the game in Maelstrom's favor would be revenge on Flames for doing the same thing.

I think next time I lose a match to Maelstrom because of a Flames Zerg that was just for the obvious purpose of costing the match- I'll macro something to alliance chat after that for when we're way behind that says 'OK we've lost, make sure the Flames don't win, because it's what they do to us!'.

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

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I have never once seen someone shout out "Kill the adders!" in the chat box lol, nor have I had a team that wanted to settle for 2nd. Usually the Chat box is full of people trying to keep the team together (zerging, as you said), and telling them to push the GC that has the most points.
From what I've seen, Adders have been the most guilty of throwing matches. The worst match I ever saw had Adders come in 3rd because they didn't even try for nodes, just killing Flames. I saw another PvP thread about it being a problem in that GC.
What I meant by GC discrimination usually comes when 1st nodes spawn. The team tends to charge the GC that screwed them the hardest in the previous match. After that 1st set of Nodes, it usually comes down to people shouting "Don't Chase!" to the tards in the group who forget it's not slaughter, and trying to keep nodes out of the hands of whoever is leading in 1st.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I've seen my fair share of flames doing the exact same thing to adders, and leaving mael alone. Guess time of day could have an effect as well, or just a revenge-cycle going on.

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It could very well be revenge cycling. It's difficult to nail down the cause, though, because the alliances are made up of players from various worlds. The mentality of one GC in one world might be totally different from that of the same GC in another world. I think the biggest factor comes in when people continue to chase. usually, with the flames, I find that they get closest to ganking another GC when they just get wrapped up in the killing and keep on chasing. They forget objectives and run relentlessly after whichever GC is in front of them. It's one of the reasons I think the game should offer exp bonuses for following objectives... maybe fighting within a certain distance of a node, for example. I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by Februs

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I made a big topic about it earlier and how it's similar to the concept of Prisoners Dillemma. It could be revenge or its just settling for second place. I've gotten my fair share of games where flames ignore all reason and straight up give nodes to mael, as well as games that we could've both go after mael in caves and make a comeback. But instead most of the time, we end up settling for 2nd/3rd.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It could be revenge or its just settling for second place.

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I'm not sure. I've seen it happen to every single GC, but I think saying their aiming for 2nd is giving them too much credit. In my experience, losing 1st usually boils down to one thing: tunnel vision. People seem to just stop thinking and keep charging after the guy who's health bar is below 50%. Before you know it, everyone forgot the objective except for the few who are screaming: "Don't Chase!" No matter which GC starts it, the result is the same. Eventually, it all just turns into a giant gank spank.
One good thing out of it is that node RNG makes winning a complete toss of the coin, but, in an objective based match, I don't feel like that should be the case. It would be great if there was a way to encourage people to avoid playing dumb and leaving the free for all style gameplay for a free for all style game mode.

[QUOTE=Februs;3220219].../QUOTE]

You lose your first placing as well if you can't stay on top of nodes or get overrun by both GCs due to node placements (like having all four spawn in cave, or getting the two choke points at north camp). You can't stay defensive the entire game, espesically if you're only getting one node per quad spawn. After the 10 minute mark and only three start spawning, you'd need to force something and find more points through kills, otherwise you can.l behind due to node rank differences.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You lose your first placing as well if you can't stay on top of nodes or get overrun by both GCs due to node placements (like having all four spawn in cave, or getting the two choke points at north camp). You can't stay defensive the entire game, espesically if you're only getting one node per quad spawn. After the 10 minute mark and only three start spawning, you'd need to force something and find more points through kills, otherwise you can.l behind due to node rank differences.

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Many, maaaaaaany people do not seem to understand this. Especially those who think they qualify to lead the alliance to victory.

Even when 1 GC is closing in on 700+ points, second GC isn't that far behind, and your GC is just chilling out back where at 500, if even, they continue to tell people to stick to capping and defending, like they still have everything to lose. Everyone in this Frontlines is so afraid to get their feet wet in battle it's just ridiculous. I tell them all the time that we need to camp points from the weaker GC to at least ensure we get second, minimize losses. But nope, they continue to call out nodes and the entire group follows, while we stay in 3rd the entire time.

They act as if we still have everything to lose by getting their feet wet and taking points by force.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You can't stay defensive the entire game, espesically if you're only getting one node per quad spawn.

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Totally agree with you here. It's frustrating when a group only yells "Defense!" Here's the thing though: attacking and chasing are totally different. Going on the offensive is very good, but being led by the nose, tempted by kills, and following around enemies that aren't even guarding a node, is very bad. You're just bleeding points, and, worse yet, the team gets spread thin and is unable to converge on new nodes.
Attacking is definitely necessary, but I find a lot of teams don't know how to attack properly. 1. Going offensive does not mean chasing opponents that get you nothing. 2. You DO NOT have to attack the most heavily defended node. Work smart not hard. And 3. for the love of god, if you're going to attack, attack in force! I can't stand it when I see the GC split up and getting nothing.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

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I found people shouting "DEFENSE!" over and over was a big problem when I started back up in seize, but it's starting to get a little better. Today, my GC was way more aggressive. That's a good thing, but now I'm faced with a different problem: the people who don't like to work as a team.
I find the best method to attacking is to stick together. People don't seem to get that their GC IS AN ARMY. If you work as one, you gain more with much less effort. Some people just run off and do their own thing, or, again, focus solely on the killing instead of the objective. It's difficult to get the entire group to follow the plan of attack. Worst case scenario is when I get people who are actively opposed to working as a team and try to convince the others that simply killing the enemy will somehow net them winning points, despite the fact that's not how Seize works.