Tanks leaving Dungeons/Trials

I don't leave stuff unless its taking too long and I need to go.

But one time I did refuse to move till one of the dps put on real gear to spirit bond and not crafting and gathering stuff. I don't care if you got a good weapon and can still push use gear that benefits your role people.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Meh, it's not ideal, but at least they're leaving. It's the "Kick me penalty-free or I'll hold the group hostage" type of folks that bug me

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I had a tank like that. When she asked me to kick her I just began to do the Manderville. Someone will get bored eventually, but I won't do a favor for toxic people.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

No. I reserve the right to send DPS i recognize as being utterly useless back to the queue, leaving myself if I have to because criticizing a DPS player is a sin punishable by death apparently. Sucks for the other players, but tough luck.

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That isn't a right, it just happens to be something made doable because of the ratio of tanks to dps. Your opinion on another player doesn't give you the right to be arrogant and rude. Secondly, criticize anyone in this game no matter how helpful, and people freak out (such as the time I suggested a tank build enmity on the target he marked as first to focus instead of repeatedly shield lobbing a target he didn't mark at all). This isn't restricted to DPS - it's just a human ego problem. Which the thinking of it being your "right" to ruin a dungeon for other people because you think you're better than them also falls under.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

I had a tank like that. When she asked me to kick her I just began to do the Manderville. Someone will get bored eventually, but I won't do a favor for toxic people.

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..Just kick them. If you finish the dungeon they still get to re queue anyhow afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

..Just kick them. If you finish the dungeon they still get to re queue anyhow afterwards.

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I agree. If someone asks to be kicked I will. No reason to keep someone who doesn't want to be there. Never had someone refuse to run until I kicked because I've always just done it. The power play is just pointless.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

There is already a penalty and it is fine. The idea that a larger penalty discriminating against tanks will make things better isn't supported by evidence nor will it promote people to play tank. It's baseline discrimination against them for their job.

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If this is how people irl thinks, the world would be a MUCH better place.

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Originally Posted by Exosapien

That isn't a right, it just happens to be something made doable because of the ratio of tanks to dps. Your opinion on another player doesn't give you the right to be arrogant and rude. Secondly, criticize anyone in this game no matter how helpful, and people freak out (such as the time I suggested a tank build enmity on the target he marked as first to focus instead of repeatedly shield lobbing a target he didn't mark at all). This isn't restricted to DPS - it's just a human ego problem. Which the thinking of it being your "right" to ruin a dungeon for other people because you think you're better than them also falls under.

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If people don't like it, they can always play tank instead. It IS a right by matter of playing a role nobody else wants to play. As a tank, I am the sole reason they aren't twiddling their thumbs in Mor Dhona. I also don't ask for much. Dodge AoE where feasible, perform boss mechanics like killing adds, don't just stand AFK to the side with no warning... that's the distinction I make for a useless DPS. Basically folks doing the kind of crap that would be inexcusable for me or the healer to do, just because they feel they're invisible.

IMO, DPS should be scrutinized and held to the same standard as other players, AKA showing a modicum of effort and attention to their role. It doesn't take a lot of effort to be a useful DPS, or tank or healer for that matter. But as the community only cares to police and judge the healers and tanks, it falls to tanks to police the DPS.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

If people don't like it, they can always play tank instead. It IS a right by matter of playing a role nobody else wants to play. As a tank, I am the sole reason they aren't twiddling their thumbs in Mor Dhona. I also don't ask for much. Dodge AoE where feasible, perform boss mechanics like killing adds, don't just stand AFK to the side with no warning... that's the distinction I make for a useless DPS. Basically folks doing the kind of crap that would be inexcusable for me or the healer to do, just because they feel they're invisible.

IMO, DPS should be scrutinized and held to the same standard as other players, AKA showing a modicum of effort and attention to their role. It doesn't take a lot of effort to be a useful DPS, or tank or healer for that matter. But as the community only cares to police and judge the healers and tanks, it falls to tanks to police the DPS.

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I agree to an extent. I hold every role to a degree of scrutiny. Overeager tanks that are stingy with CD's, torturously slow DPS, or healers that can't handle their healing load put up red flags for me. Coaching struggling players through mechanics is one thing, but to teach a player their class during a duty detracts from everyone's time, not to mention the scathing remark that will be leveled at you in way of thanks. I'd sooner leave and continue enjoying my playtime, regardless of what class I came in on and how long I waited in queue.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

There is already a penalty and it is fine. The idea that a larger penalty discriminating against tanks will make things better isn't supported by evidence nor will it promote people to play tank. It's baseline discrimination against them for their job.

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I'm a tank and I do believe the penalty could use a adjustment. It should penalize based on the actual demand for each type of job. If a tank is in need, and people are waiting longer for them, then they should get a longer wait time as a penalty. I know its already 30 mins, but its the same for all classes regardless of their need in a dungeon. It would have to be proportional to the actual wait time the group had to endure in order to enter. And I know that would be hard to program properly. I think 30+ whatever the group had to wait. I'm cool with it being long enough that the tank would have to think, well gee the penalty is going to be longer then this is going to take with newbies, so i midaswell help. Heck a caption popping up when the dungeon starts, "your group has waited x minutes for you to join". I know some people wouldn't care but others may rethink their actions if they actually knew.

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Originally Posted by Drako

I'm a tank and I do believe the penalty could use a adjustment. It should penalize based on the actual demand for each type of job. If a tank is in need, and people are waiting longer for them, then they should get a longer wait time as a penalty. I know its already 30 mins, but its the same for all classes regardless of their need in a dungeon. It would have to be proportional to the actual wait time the group had to endure in order to enter. And I know that would be hard to program properly. I think 30+ whatever the group had to wait. I'm cool with it being long enough that the tank would have to think, well gee the penalty is going to be longer then this is going to take with newbies, so i midaswell help. Heck a caption popping up when the dungeon starts, "your group has waited x minutes for you to join". I know some people wouldn't care but others may rethink their actions if they actually knew.

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If I'm saddled with a group that can't complete the content, for whatever reason, why should I be subject to an extended penalty just for the role that I chose? Not everyone will vote abandon in favor of trying again, so I'd sooner drop the party if it's clear that the remainder of the dungeon is going to be a struggle. I play tanks to diversify myself as a healer main, but if I had to worry about excessive time outs I'd be less likely to join. I'm not about to sit through a 60+ minute lockout for someone else's incompetency. If you end up pushing potential tanks away from the role with additional punishments then it will only take longer to get into the dungeons in the first place. Perhaps more benefits for in-progress tanks would work better.