ILevel or Skill level?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

MMOs are about time investment first, before level of skill.
If you don't have huge amounts of time to play, I can guarantee there are plenty of games you can play that are worth more /time spend playing. Which makes sense, similar amount of development time/funding for those games, but a smaller game.

---

15 years ago maybe.
I enjoy MMOs.
I do not have 10 hours every day to devote to gaining tiny stat increments so that i can play the challenging content.

Skill comes before time invested.
If time was all that was required to be good at the game, everyone would be clearing FCoB.

If XIV told me i needed to spend a week getting my Job to cap then spend 3 months grinding my stats up so i could do anything with that Job, I'd quit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylve

15 years ago maybe.
I enjoy MMOs.
I do not have 10 hours every day to devote to gaining tiny stat increments so that i can play the challenging content.

Skill comes before time invested.
If time was all that was required to be good at the game, everyone would be clearing FCoB.

If XIV told me i needed to spend a week getting my Job to cap then spend 3 months grinding my stats up so i could do anything with that Job, I'd quit.

---

15 years ago and today.

If you want the best quality for your time spend, then mmos are not a good choice.
If for you skill comes before time invested, then it seems to me mmos arent really your thing.

Ignoring the mmo tag as meaning ''requires time investment, but gives you something you can do over a longer time because of it'' is certainly something we didnt have 15 years ago however.
Its very prevailent these days however, it seems.


If I have an hour to spend on a game, and I want to enjoy that hour from start to finish, then I play a singleplayer game where I can just hop in, without having to grind first, or wait for queues.

If on the other hand I'm looking for something I can play for a much longer time over the course of a month or a year, then a mmo is a much better choice.


Singleplayer games dont typically require (much, or any) grinding. Whereas grinding or things such as queues are a part of the mmo genre. You need to be able to have enough to do to potentially play it for months, after all.

It is that simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amatsuhira

So you're against bonus stats? interesting.

---

Only problem would be if the ceiling was set too high..
i.e. if to reach max stats, it took months and months of grinding, then crafters would rule over you with their throw money at it approach!
If it was set too low or just right, then it would be a pointless grind just for the sake of grinding.. Especially if all builds will end up looking the same cookie cutter builds.
IF, and a big IF, in an MMO there were multiple viable builds, then yes I'd be all for such a system, I don't think SE's up to the challenge of balancing all that though.

Oh and btw, if you want an example of MMO based on skill lvl building up.. Check out Darkfall Online.

I LOVED the concept of the game, I really did, it doesn't fit with FF14 environment, but the cut throat combat and lawlessness was awesome.. it creates a serious gap between no lifers and casuals though.. I had a go at it for a few weeks then I just couldn't keep up (started school around that time) but it WAS a good game.. not a good model for keeping around a hefty amount of casual players though, and that leads to financial failure

At first I thought you meant actual skill level, not paper skill level. If 'ilvl' only increases based on a player's actual combat achievements (beat this gain x slvl, beat that gain x slvl, etc) I'd imagine alot of players wouldn't actually be anywhere near 'slvl' 100 out of 130.

The whining would be an amazing sight to behold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amatsuhira

So you're against bonus stats? interesting.

---

In an MMO there are no such things as "bonus stats". Those bonuses become mandatory and failure to acquire them becomes unacceptable.

I and many others had to go through that in XI, in the end it wasn't to fun knowing skill gains would be really slow (or expensive if you're only buying tomes). Given what I remember reading about 1.0 It sounded like the job/class thing they wanted would have been better on a tree based on skill level in conjunction with class level. Again, not to fun since it would have been to much like XI before several long overdue adjustments.

Otherwise I think the PVP/ Frontline ability skill sets are the only thing in game even close to how I'm interpreting the question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

Singleplayer games dont typically require (much, or any) grinding. .

---

I take it you've never played the old Dragon Warrior titles before they were re-released as Dragon Quest. Or got those other summons, rat tails for that armor, and those dragon drops on the moon in FFII (us). Let alone getting your party level high enough to make the last dungeon journey not require as much running away and potions, tents etc.. in Final Fantasy for the NES. (Although the last boss can be killed in the first turn)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amatsuhira

For every 50 i have Zenith, then they implemented Atma, the grinding of mobs that are lower level than my weapons were and i lost interest. I have all kinds of materia, I was more or less suggesting something more radical but you could take a water 1 and make it a iv through an exp system. Just as an example.

---

This just makes me...confused. You want a long grind to boost an item/skill's level...but refuse to go do a relic quest. Which isn't even really a terrible grind.

I get the feeling you just don't know what you want, or maybe don't know what exactly you're talking about

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gardes

At first I thought you meant actual skill level, not paper skill level. If 'ilvl' only increases based on a player's actual combat achievements (beat this gain x slvl, beat that gain x slvl, etc) I'd imagine alot of players wouldn't actually be anywhere near 'slvl' 100 out of 130.

The whining would be an amazing sight to behold.

---

Datacrons in SWTOR come to mind. The bonuses were enough that they were mandatory instead of fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kotemon

I take it you've never played the old Dragon Warrior titles before they were re-released as Dragon Quest. Or got those other summons, rat tails for that armor, and those dragon drops on the moon in FFII (us). Let alone getting your party level high enough to make the last dungeon journey not require as much running away and potions, tents etc.. in Final Fantasy for the NES. (Although the last boss can be killed in the first turn)

---

None of those old titles required more than ~200 hours of gameplay to grind it out..
I've averaged about 120 hours on the typical FF/DQ titles and felt it was enough..
Disgaea, La Pucelle, Phantom Brave, these NIS titles, now these are a completely different beast.. I think the most I've put in was about 300 hours into Disgaea 2..

Now, I ask you.. How many hours do you think I have logged on WoW? FF14? Guild Wars 2? Wildstar? Take a guess, they're at least a digit higher :) In case of WoW, could even be 2 digits more..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GenJoe

I think the most I've put in was about 300 hours into Disgaea 2....

---

Now Disgaea is a series I've heard lots about, but unfortunately I've never been able to get my hands on any of them when I still had a PS2 to experience the gameplay. Or the Secret/Legend of Mana sets. The later might be more for unlocking via map placement and the forge. I'd also suggest Ever Quest back in its hay-day but I knew nothing about online at the time let alone cared much for it after hearing those rumors. Mostly like it was the RPG version of crack for DnD folks. Then again EQ wasn't single player like Elder Scrolls 3.