Square, if youre going to ban Gil buyers, give them a PERMANENT ban

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Interesting conversations here. I think what DoctorPepper is saying is this: SE can rightfully ban bots and RMT spamming characters because all of the actions bots and such do are done within SE's servers and are thus able to be monitored, sorted, parsed, have metrics done on, whatever. The actual act of buying gil via a RMT website is completely outside of SE's ability to police or monitor, and thus they can never prove that the person receiving gil ever actually committed the act of buying it themselves. It would be poor PR for SE to consider paying customers as guilty before proven innocent, not to mention the overhead such monitoring and litigation with irate customers would cost.

Personally, I think buying gil in a game that doesn't even require it to have the best gear is foolhardy, but realistically, SE can't ever prove the 'illegal act' was ever done by the receiver of gil.

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This is exactly what I mean, thank you adding another perspective.

Basically, I think it's SE's responsibility to prove the person is guilty, not the player's responsibility to prove their innocence.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Don't get me wrong, I don't support the buyers or the sellers. I just don't think that there is enough evidence to prove somebody buys gil because they received gil from rmt. So go ahead and ban buyers who say they're buying with in game chat but good luck getting the buyers to say something about it in game.

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You can't receive a mail from someone that isn't your friend so that reduces the chances of being frame by like 95 %.

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Originally Posted by lololink

You can't receive a mail from someone that isn't your friend so that reduces the chances of being frame by like 95 %.

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Just playing devil's advocate, but I know I've mistakenly been in battle and clicked "accept" on those annoying weird name friend requests without paying attention // didn't notice till I checked my list later to see if a friend not in my FC was online... I truly wish they could have a 'decline all friend requests' option somewhere... like turning off PvP in some games.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Just playing devil's advocate, but I know I've mistakenly been in battle and clicked "accept" on those annoying weird name friend requests without paying attention // didn't notice till I checked my list later to see if a friend not in my FC was online... I truly wish they could have a 'decline all friend requests' option somewhere... like turning off PvP in some games.

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even if you accepted it, it would then require you to accept the gils from the mail, you could delete it and tell a GM what happened to be sure, reducing even more the chances of being framed, that would only work on really noob players that wouldn't even know what a gil seller is.

Hate to say it, but one of the better ways of getting rid of RMT is SE selling their own gil... that way there's no point for RMT to exist here. Though that said, I don't think the RMT is that bad, yet, course its hard for bots to make new chars on my server so its not as big a deal here :o
So would you rather be spam'd by bots to buy illegal gil, or have buying gil a legit option offered by SE and deal with the pay-to-win people (though really in a PvE game who the hell cares?)

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Originally Posted by lololink

You can't receive a mail from someone that isn't your friend so that reduces the chances of being frame by like 95 %.

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I guess I just don't assume people are intelligent, just because I won't accept it doesn't mean somebody else won't. I know some genuinely nice people who are really slow and I don't want people to get banned just because they're slower than other people.

While I would actually do exactly that (send GM mail and not even touch the mail), there are probably some people who would just accept it because, well, easy gil and not enough intelligence. It is those people I was referring to who could lie and say they didn't buy it, even if they did. Sure, they'd get it taken away, but they couldn't really be punished. There's just so many ways to plead your innocence since SE cannot prove anything at all -- all they can do is take away suspicious gil // and all of the time and expenditure to police this kind of thing is something I don't think SE wants to invest in - or they would have already. All of these GM interactions cost money, after all.

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Originally Posted by Mizore_Canaan

Hate to say it, but one of the better ways of getting rid of RMT is SE selling their own gil... that way there's no point for RMT to exist here. Though that said, I don't think the RMT is that bad, yet, course its hard for bots to make new chars on my server so its not as big a deal here :o
So would you rather be spam'd by bots to buy illegal gil, or have buying gil a legit option offered by SE and deal with the pay-to-win people (though really in a PvE game who the hell cares?)

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Then why have gil if anyone can buy however much they want? That's pay 2 win right there.

As others are pointing out, you can't prove somebody bought gil unless they outright admit it. All the person has to do is say "I didn't buy it. A random stranger just gave me this I don't know why." etc and SE cannot prove they are lying. It would be a very bad business practice for SE to just start banning paying customers left and right based on circumstantial evidence and gut feelings.

When a player receives a large amount of gil from a known gilseller (who collects gil from multiple bots), he will be given a warning not to do so again. If he yet again receives a large amount of gil from a known gilseller and not report it, then he will have a hard time convincing a judge or jury that he is innocent. Despite popular belief, a judge or the jury do have some level of common sense!