Because Lolorito and Ilberd aren't the only heads on the Hydra, killing them would only make it easier for more to take their place. Also, THREE important people die the same night? A lot of the smallfolk would lump their deaths in with the Sultana's assassination, probably assume that its a takeover manuvere by Raubahn and the Scions. Imagine the reaction if Prime Minister of the UK, The Queen and the head of NATO got murdered on the same night, and that someone was confirmed to be responsible for two of these deaths, most people would assume that they were responsible for the third death.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRethiel
Alphinaud was the commander, then he had the sword to his neck, Ilberd will have assumed his role. Also, Raubahn took the first swing, he killed one of the Syndicate, it wouldn't take much for them to spin some bullshit about him.
The final part of ARR story doesn't make enough sense.
Printable View
-
04-15-2015, 06:02 AMChewy2nd
-
04-15-2015, 06:26 AMRobinRethiel
Lolo hired Ilberd to kill the Sultana. Both fought back, when they were caught and died. End. Nobody gives a **** about Ilberd. Most people of Uldah for sure do not even know him.
And sure, there may be more heads, but they don't got the position to take over Uldah like Lolo did now.
And why should anyone assume, that the Scions would take over Uldah? The Scions would not do anything like that. It's super pointless to even think in that direction. They got nothing to do with Uldah, they just risk their lifes to save people. That's all. No politics.
Sure, maybe people could think that it may have been a plot of Raubahn. but really: everyone saw how much he loved the Sultana, many guests saw, how the message of her death enraged him. And as long as Raubahn would not declare himself the leader or even try it, it would also be no coup in the slightest. The goal of a coup is, that the putschists come to power. As Lolo did now...
Image the reaction of the people, if the Queen of the UK is getting murdered and the Prime Minister gets the sole power in the whole land and is blaming that to... let's say to Interpol. And then imagine, that the Queens and the Prime Minister are getting murdered and his conspiracy is revealed by Interpol, that he killed the Queen to become the sole leader. What makes more sense.
The Crystal Braves are not even close to being something like the NATO. The alliance between the three states is something like that. So actually Raubahn is more of a NATO leader...
Ilberd is just some commander of a bunch of mercenaries. So more like the 2nd in command of blackwater/academy.
Alphinaud was still the commander, it does not work this way, that he can just take over power like that in mere minutes. This actually just proves Ilberd's treason.
Raubahn killed one of the assassins of the Sultana. That would be the story if we wouldn't have fled. Now Raubahn of course is a murder, just like us. And the real murder is the king of Uldah and can do whatever he wants, for example invite the empire. Sure, this may not happen, but it could and we just fled to save ourselves and make this possible. We played with the whole fate of Eorza this way, just because we are suddenly cowards.
If we simply would have stayed for a trial, it would have all been a much bigger problem for Lolo. The people don't trust him. They trust us. They see, that we go not wish for power over Uldah (how anyway?). But he does. He got by far the biggest motive to kill the Sultana. We got none. But we fled. And even if people may think, that we are not guilty of murder, we are indeed guilty of having marooned them. Everything what will happen now in Uldah is at least partly our fault. We could have done something. We could have at least tried. But we just let them win. Everything. Everything worked out pretty perfect for them. For sure better than they could have hoped for. -
04-15-2015, 06:40 AMgamesmartWhen few know what actually happened, those few could EASILY twist the telling of events in a given direction. Earth history is plenty proof of this. There were Brass Blades in the vicinity - if you killed Lolorito and Ilberd, every Brass Blade under their payroll, and some of those that aren't (because orders are orders), is going to come after you. There would be undeniable proof of your wrongdoing, if you were even able to walk out of that situation in one piece - which, let's face it, even the almighty Warrior of Light can't hold off hundreds or thousands of enemies by him/herself. If even one of those Blades was left alive, he'd be able to spread the information of not only suspected regicide, but confirmed murder of a government official and every single guard you've killed, which would completely shatter your reputation among the smallfolk. On the other hand, if you left a massive trail of bodies, that's more or less the same effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRethiel
You're trying to make the resolution sound easier than it is. Killing the ringleaders of the coup would only make your position much, MUCH worse. -
04-15-2015, 06:47 AMCiliaStaying for a trial is pointless. While we would have the support of the populace, the fact is that we were alone with the Sultana and had a vial of the poison that killed her on our person. There's no way to prove our innocence without honest testimony from Nanamo's handmaiden, Laurentius, and Ilberd - and there's also no way they'd give honest testimony while they're in Lolorito's pocket. Even then, Lolorito could probably bribe enough of the jury to get the outcome he wants. Even if they disagree with the law and know it's corrupt, there's nothing the citizens can legally do to fight back against it, especially when the sole remaining authority figure basically owns the police force.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRethiel
This is all, of course, assuming Ul'dahn trials are the same in structure as U.S. trials.
Staying would leave us imprisoned for life at best, executed at worst. -
04-15-2015, 06:49 AMViridianaThat's a number of assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRethiel
1) Assuming the trial system has anything to do with the people and isn't just a single person or tribunal
2) Assuming that Lolorito wouldn't rig the selection of the jury or magistrate
3) Assuming that Lolorito wouldn't also rig the determination of guilt -
04-15-2015, 06:49 AMKaiser-AceUuuuh, I'll let you in on a secret. They had no intention of putting us on trial. They were going to "Detain Us" and then take us out in the middle of the Sangolli and kill us where no one would find us.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRethiel
THAT'S why we ran for our lives. They completely intended to kill us. Sure Alphinoud and Alise may have been nice political prisoners being the Grand Children of Louisuox and heirs to one of the Sharlyan noble families. But Minfilia is an Alamihgan Refugee who changed her name to avoid the Empire, Thancred is an Ex-Rouge, Yda and Papalymo are relatively unknown in Ul'dah as is Y'shtola.
So besides The WoL and the Twins they had no reason to keep any one else alive. And despite the fact that we're Godslaying Warriors of Light we could still be outnumbered and over run. Sure we can stop a primal but could we fight ALL OF THEM at one time? Answer... No. So a few hundred crystal braves and a few THOUSAND Brass Blades would have easily over run the WoL, an Ex-Rouge, a punch happy blond chick, and two "Weirdo Scholars". Especially since Minfilia was kinda limited on her fighting abilities and Roubahn was literally dis-armed just minutes before hand. -
04-15-2015, 06:53 AMCelvantisI hate to be "That guy" but Offically, Lolorito is not the Sultan, as far as the public knows Nanamo is alive but ill and the incumbent monarch.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRethiel
Unoffically he isn't the sultan, he welds as much power as he ever has in the syndicate minus Teledji's influence (which would of cost him power, not gained it.), and he hasn't got any legal royal claim to the throne in any way at all. -
04-15-2015, 06:53 AMRobinRethiel
The whole vial scene was BS anyway...
Many people know of it, we have for sure talked about it with much more then just Momo. If we don't carry around our weapons, we will for sure also not take the vial with us, why should we?
Then we had a meeting with the Sultana. No one would or could poison a wine with such a big vial that way. How?
It makes no sense at all.
U.S. trials? I really would not want an U.S. trial. You end up in a prison on Cuba there or killed by a drone...
But Uldah is no big country. It's a small city state. Things does not work like that there. They can't just make us vanish. We are to well known in all three city states and important for their defense. If we would be a peon, sure, who cares. But to just kill the WoL - this would be a political desaster, because the other city states would not simply accept this like that. The State Companies would not just accept it. The people would not just accept it. A dead Monetarian? Who would care? They are important because of their money - and this money is still there. A dead WoL? It's like in Gladiator. You can't just kill the hero of the colloseum. And we are far, far more than that. Hundreds and thousands own their lifes to us. Dead Sultana, dead WoL and Lolo suddenly in charge? THAT would be an obvious coup and civil war. Dead Sultana and dead Lolo leading to a power vacuum? Happens. Since the WoL will not be even close to fill this power vacuum, it's a completely different scenario.
Would be hard to explain this, no? And if they are really that brutal: THAT would be the main reason to NOT run. They are fascists. We just let fascists come to power in Uldah. GREAT! What do you think this people would do now, if this would be real?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace
What's the difference? He's in power now. He can (almost) do what he wanst. There is no one who can hinder him. The Sultana IS dead. Raubahn IS imprisoned. Since they get so easily away with all this, it would be even easier to also get the new Lala commander imprisoned for treason. He is Raubahn's "son", no?Quote:
I hate to be "That guy" but Offically, Lolorito is not the Sultan, as far as the public knows Nanamo is alive but ill and the incumbent monarch
The throne is abandoned. And the dead Sultana is his puppet.
*laughs* Yeah, sure, because anyone would trust these guys, who are known to be corrupt. And of course those loyal sell sword would risk their lifes for... ah, yes, nothing. Nobody would give them anything for that, they would just risk their life for nothing.Quote:
When few know what actually happened, those few could EASILY twist the telling of events in a given direction. Earth history is plenty proof of this. There were Brass Blades in the vicinity - if you killed Lolorito and Ilberd, every Brass Blade under their payroll, and some of those that aren't (because orders are orders), is going to come after you. There would be undeniable proof of your wrongdoing, if you were even able to walk out of that situation in one piece - which, let's face it, even the almighty Warrior of Light can't hold off hundreds or thousands of enemies by him/herself. If even one of those Blades was left alive, he'd be able to spread the information of not only suspected regicide, but confirmed murder of a government official and every single guard you've killed, which would completely shatter your reputation among the smallfolk. On the other hand, if you left a massive trail of bodies, that's more or less the same effect.
Hunders of thousands? What are you talking about? There are not hundreds of thousands Brass Blades. And most of them will be just like cops. Maybe corrupt, but for sure mostly care for the next pay check. What do you think the Brass Blades are?
And hell, even if: Let that be the reason we have to flee. That would at least be acceptable. We save the people and now some mercenaries hunt us. Would be soooo much better. But it is not. The story is the story. It's not like they will change it, no matter what I or anyone else is writing here. -
04-15-2015, 07:08 AMCiliaThe whole point of having us run that "quick errand" was entirely that Momodi was the only person (besides Laurentius) who knew about it. Momodi can't testify we didn't know what was in it, and it was a rushed errand before the feast so it's unlikely we really talked to anyone else about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRethiel
It wasn't a particularly big vial either. They probably didn't do a full body search for just that reason; they wanted us to have it. We weren't allowed to keep our weapons because that would raise the question of why we didn't just kill her with those (it's fairly clear Nanamo was never trained in any type of combat ability). They had to make it look like the only way we could have killed Nanamo was with the poison, without eyewitnesses to disprove that possibility, which is exactly what they got. -
04-15-2015, 07:16 AMDalvyThey weren't The sole people in that room, and aren't the only heads on the beast. With that many witnesses and with no proof of innocence, people are going to lean in favor of the accusers.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRethiel
Also, how would you hide killing politicians at a banquet? How COULD you have the moment to think of attacking Lolorito after Raubahn asks you to run?
Heroics and bloodlust aren't going to solve as large of a plot as this. Again, how is slaughtering people once Raubahn frees us change the situation in our favor?
The WoL could not do anything to improve the situation; we are not as badass as we think.