What are the differences between the Echo and having Hydaelyn's Blessing? [Spoilers?]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ExKage

I don't even remember why the crystals were so important. Does Hydaelyn's blessing do much except.... What did it do other than it somehow protected us from Ascians? What exactly is it, to be blessed by Hydaelyn?

---

I always figured that the blessing of light was how Hydaelyn was able to directly intervene during the fight with Ultima Weapon in the Praetorium. It seemed to me that the combined six crystals of light basically gave her a means by which to manifest her power in the world. Somehow this also seemed to act as a barrier of sorts to the Ascians.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ExKage

Edit: From what I remember of the end cutscene (I might have been too busy going "oh SHIT!") Midgardsormr was mad after sending the dragons to kill you. He speaks to you and he realizes that you have Hydaelyn's Blessing. You're worried, he tells you he won't harm you, and then he strips the weak Hydaelyn's blessing???? and makes a covenant of his own with you. For what purpose? I assume we shall find out in 2.55 and 3.0.

Dragons are not Ascian friends. Dragons and Dravonians are at War with Ishgard. Ascians control Ishgard.

WELP

---

One thing a lot of people seem to be assuming is that Midgardsormr himself bears some ill will against Ishgard. He never actually says this though. He says 'My people have heard the call. Ishgard will burn.' but goes on to mention it was not him that gave the call, but one of his children. He actually strikes me as being somewhat neutral in the whole affair, pointing out that Ishgard has made mistakes to anger the Dravanians, thus understanding why the war is happening but not explicitly taking sides.

In the same vein he regards us with bemusement. We have been chosen by Hydaelyn but he is not convinced of our worthiness of that blessing (very similar feeling to Ramuh here actually). He accepts Hydaelyn's judgement though and deigns to give us a chance (by not killing us). His removal of the blessing is curious though... In the Japanese translation he actually infers that the Ascians would find a way to remove it eventually anyway, and so his putting the power to use in creating a new body for himself is something of an efficient use of resources. Midgardsormr seems to be on the same side as Hydaelyn (or he at least has an understanding with her) but he is much more of a pragmatist. I'm personally expecting him to be our new Hydaelyn equivalent in the expansion, guiding (or at least observing) us in our task, but also having a much more ruthless approach to things...

I'm even wondering if Hydaelyn possibly intended for him to take the blessing and use the power to help us in her absence.

Blessing of Light

The Echo

Two different things. 'Nuff said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

I always figured that the blessing of light was how Hydaelyn was able to directly intervene during the fight with Ultima Weapon in the Praetorium. It seemed to me that the combined six crystals of light basically gave her a means by which to manifest her power in the world. Somehow this also seemed to act as a barrier of sorts to the Ascians.

One thing a lot of people seem to be assuming is that Midgardsormr himself bears some ill will against Ishgard. He never actually says this though. He says 'My people have heard the call. Ishgard will burn.' but goes on to mention it was not him that gave the call, but one of his children. He actually strikes me as being somewhat neutral in the whole affair, pointing out that Ishgard has made mistakes to anger the Dravanians, thus understanding why the war is happening but not explicitly taking sides.

---

In the English version, he said that "sons must pay for the sins of their fathers" and "Ishgard will burn". He is decidedly not neutral. Given he didn't appear until the Empire invaded, I don't think he really as much stake in the war between the Dravians and Ishgard. However, given that Ishgard is now completely corrupted, I think he has taken a more vested interest in ensuring the dravians gain the upper hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

It seems like anybody can either be born with the echo (us, minfilia, others) or given it somehow via the Sahagin priest method.

---

I'd like to point out that while there is a lot we don't know about the nature of the Echo we haven't actually seen anyone in game who was born with it. Rather every Echo user is "awakened" or given it a some point. For the ARR player character this is the opening of the game. It was similar for the 1.0 player character, although it took them about 20 lvls to figure out what as going on (and the forums a lot longer). In 1.0's Ul'dah storyline we also saw (in an echo) how Minfilia gained the Echo as a child. There were a lot of npcs with the Echo in 1.0 and a number of them would tell stories about how they suddenly gained the ability.

One thing that is bothering me about 2.5 is that it seems like Minfilia has the ability to understand Nabriales even when he is speaking Ascian!speech. In 1.0 she stated that her manifestation of the echo did not give her this ability. I wish they had kept the old way of doing voice overs to be a bit clearer. Have they retconned Minfilia's Echo, or is her Echo evolving now?

Alright, I did some research. It took me a while to go through every mention of blessing and echo that I've ever saved, but here we are. These two quotes I think sum up the majority of the information needed to make an educated guess, though that many in the thread have already expressed a similar interpretation. What made me assume they were synonymous up until this point was simply the choice of words the game often used. We are blessed with the power of the Echo, it often says, and both the Echo and the Blessing of Light are described as empowering us "beyond mortal limits" by several NPCs. Alas, if they are not separate, we can make some guesses.

THE ECHO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minfilia

Yours is the power to transcend the boundaries of the soul—a power known as the Echo. The Echo allows you to pass through the walls of a man's soul, and hear the resonations of his past. You will be there in his memories, and see things as he saw them. You may even interact with that which you see, though you cannot change the outcome of events. For another blessing, the Echo will enable you to know a man's mind even if you cannot comprehend his words.In short, the Echo is a truly extraordinary power. And this power is strong within you.

---

The Echo is bestowed upon the player the first time the Mothercrystal says, "Hear... Feel.... Think..." It somehow removes from your soul its inability to transcend certain boundaries. It gives you the ability to re-live others' memories as well as understand their sentiments, words, and intent regardless of what the actual expression of it is. Moreover, there are hints that it can transcend the flesh and mortality itself if used properly. It also protects the bearer's soul from the corrupting influences of the primals. I still resist calling the Echo "another form of tempering." If Hydaelyn is the "white light" to the six-element "rainbow," she, as the whole, should be able to fill the "blessing socket" with a whole that could resist any of its parts. Furthermore, perhaps it's just the overcoming of the limitations of ours soul in the first place that strengthen it enough to resist influence. I'm not really sure on that one, yet.

THE BLESSING OF LIGHT
The Blessing of Light does not seem to manifest until we collect the first Crystal of Light; it seems to be tied to the glyph.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lahabrea

It is the blessing of Light that confounds you. Your foe acts under the protection of the Crystal [he] bears. (It is what empowers [him]) [b]eyond mortal limits.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hydaelyn

Receive of me this power, my child, and raise thy Crystal aloft!

---

As Hydaelyn's Champion (and in our own right), our strength draws the Crystals of Light to us, and they in turn further strengthen us. It's a positive feedback loop. Many characters remark that it's amazing that our strength could not only draw one crystal, but that our strength in addition to it would draw another... and another... As far as I can tell, the Blessing of Light is essentially the glyph we see in the visions, strengthened as we collect the crystals. A guess would be that their power enables Hydaelyn to shine through them and shield her champion in the corporeal realm, but doing so has come at a great cost. With Hyadelyn weakened, we still lean on her like a crutch, and I think this offends Midgardsormr, who entered into some covenant with her long ago and sees us as weak and unworthy to be her champion. By sealing the weakened Blessing of Light and binding himself to us, I think Midgardsormr is engaging in a trial of mankind through us, much as Ramuh did, to see if Hydaelyn chose well or if we'll just burn along with Ishgard.

A lot of people have been saying Midgardsormr lacked some information in English, so I went out of my way to translate all four languages back to English and then paraphrase their combined content. Say what you will about the decision to sand off a lot of Midgardsormr's wordiness, but in my humble opinion, if you actually considered his words instead of trying to absorb them like a sponge and move on, the other versions didn't tell you anything you didn't already know or anything you couldn't infer.

COMBINED / PARAPHRASED DIALOGUE

Who shows such irreverence as to enter my resting place and disturb my slumber?
You are (ignorant / forgetful) to not know me, I am the (lord / first / genesis) of dragons.
You possess the Echo, but it is not your salvation.
Is it by Her will that we have met? ... What is it that has led you to me?
A star? Yes, it burns bright, my kind rallies to the call.
Ishgard will burn. They remember not fear or the crimes that have been committed.
The sons have inherited their father's sins, and with their deaths will their crimes be avenged.
We will never forget, we will never forgive, we will not allow their sins to be repeated.
One of my seven children sings for justice. That the advance will halt is but false hope.
I rouse only to respond and join in the song.
Man repents not his sins against us. The earth will be scorched and they will be undone. This is your last hour.
---- Attack is deflected by Hydaelyn's protection ----
What trickery is this?! That light! This is Your chosen!?
You give this vulgar being powers beyond the Echo, and beyond what it deserves! And you would wish for me to aid them?
If this be your wish, I must accept it. Fear not, mortal...
---- The crystals of light are darkened ----
By my claw has been sealed the blessing of light.
But I will not harm you, the threat of that comes from elsewhere.
At the beginning, Hydaelyn gave me shelter and light.
You, who are young and weak, have long enjoyed Her grace, but no more.
---- Midgardsormr creates a small dragon ----
This is my incarnation, a piece of my soul. I send it with you, as we are now bound.
It's eyes are my eyes, its ears are my ears. Let us see what you do without the protection of light.
Will this trial lead to war's end? Are you more than just a porter of borrowed power?
Can you overcome the mark I've laid upon you with your own strength? Man has ever coveted that just beyond his reach.
I drink of this land's aether and by Her grace am I gradually restored.
When this incarnation is whole, the loyal and penitent shall rejoice.
The song of my children covers the whole of the sky and heralds both beginning and end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

THE ECHO


The Echo is bestowed upon the player the first time the Mothercrystal says, "Hear... Feel.... Think..." It somehow removes from your soul its inability to transcend certain boundaries. It gives you the ability to re-live others' memories as well as understand their sentiments, words, and intent regardless of what the actual expression of it is. Moreover, there are hints that it can transcend the flesh and mortality itself if used properly. It also protects the bearer's soul from the corrupting influences of the primals. I still resist calling the Echo "another form of tempering." If Hydaelyn is the "white light" to the six-element "rainbow," she, as the whole, should be able to fill the "blessing socket" with a whole that could resist any of its parts. Furthermore, perhaps it's just the overcoming of the limitations of ours soul in the first place that strengthen it enough to resist influence. I'm not really sure on that one, yet.

---

I think one thing to keep in mind is that in japanese the Echo is more descriptively called 超える力, in other words the "power to transcend/overcome". When describing it to you upon your first meeting with her, Minfilia uses terms such as 心の壁, in other words the "walls/boundaries of the heart/soul". She's basically saying that it allows you to transcend many boundaries, one of them being other people's minds. Given what we've seen of the Sahagin's way of using it, and the Ascians as well in 3.0, it seems reasonable to assume that one of those boundaries is, as you say, the flesh. In other words, the Echo is a conscious out-of-body experience whether your mind is merely peering into another person or outright occupying their body. We can assume that the Echo more than anything else is what allowed Lahabrea to take over Thancred's body. On that note, most Echo users likely do not have Hydaelyn's Blessing, but rather we could say that the Echo is a fraction of a god's power. We know of many who have the Echo, we know of some who have Hydaelyn's Blessing, but so far only Minfilia and Ysayle have displayed both (aside from ourselves), and to an apparent lesser degree than us (unless that's just proportional to the level of danger we get ourselves into).

Quote:

---

THE BLESSING OF LIGHT
The Blessing of Light does not seem to manifest until we collect the first Crystal of Light; it seems to be tied to the glyph.



As Hydaelyn's Champion (and in our own right), our strength draws the Crystals of Light to us, and they in turn further strengthen us. It's a positive feedback loop. Many characters remark that it's amazing that our strength could not only draw one crystal, but that our strength in addition to it would draw another... and another... As far as I can tell, the Blessing of Light is essentially the glyph we see in the visions, strengthened as we collect the crystals. A guess would be that their power enables Hydaelyn to shine through them and shield her champion in the corporeal realm, but doing so has come at a great cost. With Hyadelyn weakened, we still lean on her like a crutch, and I think this offends Midgardsormr, who entered into some covenant with her long ago and sees us as weak and unworthy to be her champion. By sealing the weakened Blessing of Light and binding himself to us, I think Midgardsormr is engaging in a trial of mankind through us, much as Ramuh did, to see if Hydaelyn chose well or if we'll just burn along with Ishgard.

---

I think the Blessing of Light concerns only the Dark. It's only really used to protect us from the Ascians (and seems to protect Rising Stones from them as well as long as we're in it at the time) and Ultima Weapon (a creation of at least partial Ascian origin). I don't think we used it against Midgarsormr as much as it was simply used, by Hydaelyn, to show him that we were one of her Chosen, ie sort of their way to have a conversation that went unheard by us. Except in very specific cutscenes, and without Hydaelyn's guidance, we aren't implied to ever consciously use the Blessing of Light, after all. In short, the Echo is likely just the granting of a fraction of a god's power (either Hydaelyn or Zodiark) to several people, perhaps at random. I would even argue for the possibility of people being born with the Echo, with the condition being that it's only awakened at a certain age. The Blessing of Light, on the other hand, would be granted to those more specifically chosen by a god (in this case Hydaelyn).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naria

In 1.0's Ul'dah storyline we also saw (in an echo) how Minfilia gained the Echo as a child.

---

I have to wonder, did Minfilia gain her Echo in that crypt? Going by the Tales from the Calamity, she seemed to gain the Blessing of Light a few years after that.

Its not a dark protecting, is more or less like a sheild. It protect us from anything that could harm the WoL. But the WoL's strenght I think it is his own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frederick22

Its not a dark protecting, is more or less like a sheild. It protect us from anything that could harm the WoL. But the WoL's strenght I think it is his own.

---

Based on what we've seen in-game, we aren't protected by the Blessing of Light from anything other than what's considered Dark, but it does boost our strength. To give a concrete example, the Blessing of Light in 3.0 is only mentioned the two times that Ascians attack us. The crystals, on the other hand, are regained only because we are still exercising our strength.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tenkuu

Based on what we've seen in-game, we aren't protected by the Blessing of Light from anything other than what's considered Dark, but it does boost our strength. To give a concrete example, the Blessing of Light in 3.0 is only mentioned the two times that Ascians attack us. The crystals, on the other hand, are regained only because we are still exercising our strength.

---

Im pretty much sure the strenght is ours. Middy confirms that at the end of 3.0 or at least thats what I think I have seen.