what would you consider hard content?

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Originally Posted by Krr

(Unless you're a pyromancer. Then log off and stop playing the game on easy mode.)

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Ok... I laughed at this.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

Ok... I laughed at this.

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R1 UP R1 R1 R1 SQUARE SQUARE R1 R1 R1 R1 UP R1
VICTORY ACHIEVED

YOU DEFEATED

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Y...Fantasy_XII%29 <---- this @$$hole, or damn Ruby Weapon from vii, lol

Asides from that sillyness, in regard to xiv, I agree with what most other people said, less team jump rope more random. I just hate how the same fight we will one shot one night, but on another night 1 person has lag, or 1 person needs to be replaced, and we can't beat the damn thing at all! There is too much 'o no 1 person died let's wipe' bull c*ckery going on I find. I like this game, but there is more challenge in getting 8 people to practise the same pattern for days/weeks and do their lil dances in sync, than I find in actually doing the content correctly myself. And this, I think is what a lot of people find frustrating. They know the content back to front but can't beat it. And there's nothing they can do about, because they're not the ones messin up!

I'd like to see more solo stuff in the game.

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Originally Posted by Man-Sam

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Y...Fantasy_XII%29 <---- this @$$hole, or damn Ruby Weapon from vii, lol

Asides from that sillyness, in regard to xiv, I agree with what most other people said, less team jump rope more random. I just hate how the same fight we will one shot one night, but on another night 1 person has lag, or 1 person needs to be replaced, and we can't beat the damn thing at all! There is too much 'o no 1 person died let's wipe' bull c*ckery going on I find. I like this game, but there is more challenge in getting 8 people to practise the same pattern for days/weeks and do their lil dances in sync, than I find in actually doing the content correctly myself. And this, I think is what a lot of people find frustrating. They know the content back to front but can't beat it. And there's nothing they can do about, because they're not the ones messin up!

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Yeah basically.

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Originally Posted by Man-Sam

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Y...Fantasy_XII%29 <---- this @$$hole, or damn Ruby Weapon from vii, lol

Asides from that sillyness, in regard to xiv, I agree with what most other people said, less team jump rope more random. I just hate how the same fight we will one shot one night, but on another night 1 person has lag, or 1 person needs to be replaced, and we can't beat the damn thing at all! There is too much 'o no 1 person died let's wipe' bull c*ckery going on I find. I like this game, but there is more challenge in getting 8 people to practise the same pattern for days/weeks and do their lil dances in sync, than I find in actually doing the content correctly myself. And this, I think is what a lot of people find frustrating. They know the content back to front but can't beat it. And there's nothing they can do about, because they're not the ones messin up!

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And then what this does is make it hard for new people to clear because it alienates them and the blame gets put on them. I think they should make fights more random. That way, its always a challenge and it would rely less on finding people that memorize fights and more on teamwork. Im and old school gamer and even when they started adding online mmo and such, it used to be about teamwork. Yes, some memorization is needed, but this game relies too much on it and not enough on teamwork. And they need to rework roles, where you aren't stuck doing the same thing throughout the fight just because of your role. Maybe smarter mobs, something. I just don't believe endgame content considered "hard" should force players to go watch videos in order to beat. Im a believer of trial and error

Team-work is one of those things I don't really see as much in this game and probably the most challenging content I still have yet to see delivered in a well executed manner. Yes, we need a "group of people" to beat a boss/dungeon/raid, but I rarely feel part of a team.
Most of the fights in this game are just a big middle finger to newbies and vets alike due to the randomness and execution of certain scenarios.

The only fights I really feel like everyone needs team coordination and skill are Ultima's ballad and Garuda EX. The rest are either a tank and spank free for all, cheap 1 shot boss moves or a fight against your own connection speed.

EDIT: I forgot to add another great example of team work: T1's Caduceus. Yeah, for many, this fight is like taking a candy from a baby, but if you bring any hardcore raiders from any other MMO out there they will cry at how much coordination is required (it was even better when the slimes were required to be fed to Caduceus)
My wife doesn't play the game much anymore but she did tell me that thanks to certain fights and scenarios she feels as a superior player in many other single player and MMos alike.

I'd really like it if the game didn't have to pretend I don't have all the skills I learned how to use to get to level 50 to make the end game "hard".

As PLD I have a silencing attack and Shield Bash ... both of which become very much useless in most all end game boss fights. "But Reivaxe, if you could just interrupt the end game bosses big attacks that would just make it far too easy!!!" ... maybe the way the system is now with mind melting team jump rope, yeah. If the game had organic difficulty and not jump rope then I'm sure they could find ways for players to use all their skills successfully.

As it stands now I can be over geared AND know how to jump rope the fight ... and yet I still can't pass that EX f*ckin Birdgirl cause my team will be at least half pugs who know their roles well enough but don't know the jump rope game.

For the primals, I don't think any of them are particularly difficult. Titan isn't hard. People's internet just isn't suitable for it. Ramuh is okay in terms of difficulty for the primals to me. Primals aren't difficult, but Ramuh encompassed awareness, DPS, communication... more interesting concepts of difficulty. As for the coils, Turn 9 is definitely harder than T10-12. I've only been to second phase in T13 (left group), but was told it is more of a dance than fight.

Would rather have RNG in the fights over remembering a phases mechanics.
T7 was once difficult(SMN Kiting) because of Renaud RNG spawn. Sometimes I was able to place the renaud before the subsequent Voice/Shreik, while other times I had to kite through both. That type of mechanic RNG needs to be placed on ALL members of the party. Tanks shouldn't just have to focus on cooldown management, tank swaps and limited movement mechanics. DPS shouldn't only have to worry about movement mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

Ummm... it appears you're just using this as an opportunity to flash your e-peen. How could you possibly know how this game measures up to other games in difficulty if you haven't even played any endgame? This is a fair question.

I say this from the perspective of an old-school 8-bit gamer who has survived many a bullet hell. More currently, Demon/Dark Souls are my favorite games.

There's plenty of content in FF14 that can pose a challenge. And a hefty one that that. You'd think people were constantly entering Final Coil for the first time and one-shoting it to hear many people go on.

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What poses a challenge is entirely subjective.

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Originally Posted by Krr

Less than 2 weeks for T13 world first tells us that the only real challenge is getting 8 geared people with enough time to spare memorizing a fight to sit down in a room for many consecutive hours without dying IRL.

What people are commenting on is that there's barely any adaptive play opportunities in FFXIV, which is why it is not a game about personal skill. Once you know the basics of your job and have run it for a month of two in dailies you've basically mastered performing it and the only thing left to do is find 7 other people who're willing to sit through the memorization process with you. At best the game has pseudo-random awareness checks.

The difference between say, Dark Souls and FFXIV's 'difficult' endgame, is that you can reasonably expect to complete Dark Souls without someone telling you every little thing that needs to be done against, say, Manus, or O&S, because the game allows for (and encourages) adaptive, intelligent play, whereas FFXIV's endgame has little to none - it's just time investment and memory. Sure, you can memorize those patterns, but unlike FFXIV, you can't recite nearly the exact same button combination every single fight and expect to win.

(Unless you're a pyromancer. Then log off and stop playing the game on easy mode.)

It's certainly hard to memorize Bahamut Prime's attack pattern, but to most people memorization does not equal real or organic challenge.

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This person said it perfectly