Do tanks always rush?

I'm a pretty slowgoing tank, of course I've recently started healing but I don't think that's had any influence on it. I like to be sure the party is going to make it through the first time. "Slow and steady may not always win the race, but at least it doesn't end up splattered all over the wall"

I main a tank and I try to go fast on everything. (Unless the party has melee DPS only, then there's no real purpose to pick 4-5 packs of mobs).

If I don't, DPS (BLM and BRD) complain and some are really loud.

However I always wait for stoneskin / adloqs before doing the big pulls.

50% of the time I have to ASK the crappy helaer for stoneskin/adloq.

And sometimes the healer even say things like "you have over 10k HP u no need stoneskin"
Which just show how crappy some healers can be, since they don't even understand how Stoneskin works... the bigger HP the tank has, the bigger the mitigation will be (18% of max HP).

pushing as fast as possible is the only challenge possible for dungeons.
if you want something you just afk and get done eventually, play chess on yahoo or something.

I think some of the points made by others in this thread are sound: weaker tanks get used to being healed through anything that they pull and will go berserk if this stops working for any reason. I admit to being part of the problem here: there have been many times where unqualified tanks have done a full pull in Snowcloak, Qarn, or Sastasha, and I have essentially enabled it by healing through the damage when no cooldowns are used or even when aoes are eaten. One could make a very sound argument that I should not heal in these situations and just let the group wipe, but then we all know what happens after that: the blame game. I haven't been blamed since the Brayflox days, but that's because I practiced speed running to the extent that it is nearly impossible for a group to blame me for a wipe because the cause is usually entirely obvious when it does happen. Still, it doesn't make me feel very good. I may be offering a faster run speed and doing a favor for the group in the short term, but I can't help but think that I might be setting up some tanks for future failure when they encounter a healer who is not ready for their suicidal playstyle. It's an ongoing dilemma that I wish I could do something about without being rude.

The other problem of other party members pulling for tanks is also very common and valid. I did Brayflox HM and Hullbreaker with a new tank in my FC who hadn't run them yet. In both runs, we got a different pair of decked out BLMs. It's true that pulling at least two packs (if not more) is highly beneficial with a WHM/BLM/BLM setup, but you would think that some of these people are only allowed to breathe if they are currently engaged in combat with six or more mobs. In both runs, the BLMs were constantly pulling stuff for the tank, to the point where I had to stop dpsing and spend extra time healing them to prevent deaths (more of the "enabler's dilemma"). One of the BLMs in Brayflox was highly rude, treated the tank like a servant, and demanded he skip the cutscene before the Gobmachine.

I realize that many of us have done these dungeons a large number of times, but human decency and respect have to come into the picture somewhere. The tank pulls the mobs for a reason. It should be the tank's choice how many mobs are pulled, regardless of the group composition. I think the convenience of DF has made many players lose respect for the more desired roles, so you end up with a situation where healers cover every mistake to avoid misplaced blame and tanks pull everything in sight into a giant pack to avoid whining about slow runs or pulls from the other party members themselves (regardless of whether the tank is good at speed running or not). I don't feel like there's an easy solution to the situation short of running with friends, which isn't always possible. Removing cross-server DF isn't realistic either, because trading away the convenience of readily available tanks and healers isn't worth a possible attitude adjustment in groups that may not even happen.

Just my thoughts about the situation. I don't think tanks are going to stop rushing anytime soon unless the way we play the game changes somehow.

Most tanks go too fast? I pretty much never see this. Usually I see tanks who, after finishing a pull, sit around and catnap for like 1-2 minutes before going for the next pull. Like, get going, ok?

Tanks should:

1) Wait for Protect.
2) Wait for Stoneskin if they think it's actually necessary for what they're about to fight.
3) Immediately pull after Step 1) or 2) with no further delay as appropriate.

Ain't nobody got time to wait for you to eat your bagel between every pull, ok?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Staris

pushing as fast as possible is the only challenge possible for dungeons.
if you want something you just afk and get done eventually, play chess on yahoo or something.

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Yeh... You need to lay off the booze and proofread your posts before hitting the "Post Quick Reply" button. Also your post is completely wrong... Perhaps you need lessons on how to play with others and know your role as tank/dps/healer 101.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

Ain't nobody got time to wait for you to eat your bagel between every pull, ok?

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Don't you DARE come between a tank and his bagel! You might get Shield Lobbed or Tomahawked...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Staris

slow = your bad

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And this statement right here answers the OP's question. Somehow the tank picked up the idea that he has to go fast or no party will want him. So they feel forced to go at a pace faster than they are comfortable with.

It's all about gotta go fast can't wait for anything when you are farming. Plenty of Tanks are smart enough to know when to slow down a bit through you can normally see on the first pull how things will go for the rest of the dungeon. If they are hammering mobs you might as well do bigger pulls. If it's slow and difficult for the healer then will have to pull smaller. But please at least wait for buffs it's heartbreaking when my swiftcast stoneskin II doesn't happen because the Tank runs off and pulls before the last pull is gone or i get it and pull everything XD.

Either the whole party speed runs, or they go at a normal pace. There has to be a consensus. Luckily, I had a few tanks who asked me if I could handle large pulls as a healer before starting.

Healer left behind...? Why? What you saving your TP for? Pop sprint.

Now if the tank pulls way too much and the healer is spamming heals and tank dies or hate is everywhere and people die, then ok, tank may need to slow down.