Microtransactions are here to stay. And they are a good thing.

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11-30-2014, 02:10 PM
Stihllodeing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccharin

...snip.... This is the slow slippery slope into free to play...snip....

Know this phrase and love it people. This will be said for every single vanity item that Square Enix ever puts into the cash shop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccharin

...snip...It's not reinvested and if it is it's in new cash shop item.....snip...... This cash shop is getting ready to fund their whaling ship...snip....

I don't know if this is just an unknowing contradiction or if I misunderstand what their "whaling ship" presumably is. Either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

Well this was pointless. You're saying a lot of things that have already been said over and over since the cash shop was first announced, but felt like you needed your own little thread for it for whatever reason.

Do you think people sit around and research Final Fantasy 14 like some of you, or maybe just skim the forums briefly every couple days? TO ME, who conforms to the latter, it sounds like you're a little jealous about the craftsmanship the OP put into the first post in this thread.

I mean, you only posted to say: boring, been done, you're stupid. Just sayin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alukah

...snip... I didn't stop to read the whole original post because...

Same to you dude.

I think the OP makes some good points, agree with most of it, and think this has been blown way out of proportion. I'm just wondering how the "SE doesn't care about RMTs" camp and the "SE is out to take our money through cash shop of evil" camp are going to come together on this. The ideas in which both camps are based contradict each other (SE would want the rmts dead cuz real money for cash shop)....should be interesting.

+1 OP I like tasteful cash shops.
11-30-2014, 02:11 PM
DefendPopPunk

Quote:

Originally Posted by axemtitanium

And you have no proof that formerly free things were "held back" to put them behind a paywall.

I could be wrong but the sleipnir mount was in-game since 2.0.

Also, the wedding mount was shown off way before the cash shop was announced, so it was being worked on for quite some time, if that matters at all. *shrug*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

Do you think people sit around and research Final Fantasy 14 like some of you, or maybe just skim the forums briefly every couple days? TO ME, who conforms to the latter, it sounds like you're a little jealous about the craftsmanship the OP put into the first post in this thread.

I mean, you only posted to say: boring, been done, you're stupid. Just sayin.

What. The. Hell.

No, I don't think that. Also, assumptions are nice, I guess. No, I'm not jealous. And the word craftsmanship is being used a little loosely here, it seems. I'm just saying, there have been quite a few threads about this in the past, where a lot of crap he's saying has already been said. In fact, he's been saying these same things in the threads that are currently active in the first page of general forums, Mr. Non-researcher (I guess?). Which leads me to wonder why he felt those replies he already posted deserved a thread of their own.

Lastly, I don't recall saying the OP was stupid but thanks for putting words in my mouth. That's always fun. Just sayin.
11-30-2014, 02:14 PM
AzakaTonnerre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abriael

When a company makes more revenue, said revenue isn't just put in the bank or hidden under the mattress. It's reinvested in games, and in the case of MMORPGs, mostly in the game that generates it. Which means that the more profit Square Enix makes, the more content for us all to enjoy will be greenlighted and funded.

While I agree with most of what you are saying, this is a very myopic and flowery opinion of how profits are actually used in business. Profits beyond a certain point are indeed "put in the bank or hidden under the mattress" to meet investor expectations of quarterly and annual earnings and profits. While SE and FFXIV do not have "investors" they do have shareholders and those shareholders are more important to them than any normal consumer (as it is with most if not all traded corporations).

This game, based on its own subscription numbers, generates more income and profit then it needs to sustain itself. The company without the game, however does not. In fact if you look at SE's own consolidated statement of cash flows for its past physical year and you see its cash and cash equivalents actually increased by 14,865 million yen. Meaning that since FFXIV came out SE put roughly 123,354,000 US dollars in the "bank" (as you say they don't) and increased it's cash on hand. While for the same period, according to their statement of income, investment and salaries (for developers and others) were relatively flat. Funny thing is SE actually paid more in dividends to investors for the year than it spent increasing investment in infrastructure and personnel.

So while you are right in many of your points, let's not pretend that the money from this cash shop is going to be used mainly to improve the game. This is nothing but a Machiavellian tale that businesses have nothing but the best intentions with they money consumers give them, when time and time again this is proven to not be the case.

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ir/finance/cf.html

And by the way, this is not an indictment by me of their use of a cash shop. They will use one, and I will continue to play because I enjoy the game. This was simply me showing some understanding as to why several are upset with what they see as double dipping by SE with a P2P and cash shop model.
11-30-2014, 02:15 PM
Jynx

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

I could be wrong but the sleipnir mount was in-game since 2.0.

You are not wrong.

Odin has been able to morph race to match the player race that killed him last, easilly implemented as a mount so much as I doubt much or any work really went into it. This is the first and most prime example of how easy it is for the company to cut content that was perfectly feasable to add to the game without a price tag.

It's been a killer to the argument that they wont cut content from the game to set it behind the cash shop paywall.
11-30-2014, 02:17 PM
Najara

I'm disappointed to know I will never be able to enter the Golden Saucer.

I'm not paying for anything 'extra.'

Ever.

Edit:
Errrr.. It seems I took someones joke in another thread a little too literal.
11-30-2014, 02:17 PM
Luvbunny

The cash shop is being used to see consumer's tolerance level and what is their price sensitivity. I would not be surprised that soon - it will be chock full of items that should be in the game for FREE, but now being sold in cash shops. The only way you kill cash shop is simply by not buying anything from it, period. Or if you want to go execute drastic measure, stop subscribing altogether. As long as they draw the line at "useless nonsense cosmetic items" that do nothing but change your appearance, and worthless minions and mounts, then cash shop is totally fine. They can sell all "non-game breaking" items all they want there.
11-30-2014, 02:22 PM
Jynx

Everyone has their own line where the cash shop is a bad idea. Personally I'm against it alltogether, due to how it effects the development pipeline for content, secondary considerations on almost any game system is going to be looked over by the marketing department and the question will be asked.

"Will we be able to monitize this?"

It's just a matter of them knowing where the tipping point is for player acceptance.

Personally I think even glamor and "Non game breaking" items should be earned in the game not bought. Let people posture their acheivments not the size of their wallets.
11-30-2014, 02:41 PM
Alukah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

Same to you dude.

I think the OP makes some good points, agree with most of it, and think this has been blown way out of proportion. I'm just wondering how the "SE doesn't care about RMTs" camp and the "SE is out to take our money through cash shop of evil" camp are going to come together on this. The ideas in which both camps are based contradict each other (SE would want the rmts dead cuz real money for cash shop)....should be interesting.

+1 OP I like tasteful cash shops.

And my response was those same points have been repeated and countered enough times when the cash shop was introduced and are being repeated right now in the two or three other threads about this, this thread is more of wanting extra attention while repeating the same that has been argued to death.
11-30-2014, 02:55 PM
Fyrebrand

Cash shops and/or microtransactions make sense for a game that is either Free to Play, or you just pay once and you own the game without any subscription fee. There are many console games where extra missions, characters, or costumes get released after the game has been out for a while, but it isn't feasible to publish them as a full-price new boxed release. Or for F2P MMOs, the cash shop is the only method they even generate revenue, so asking players to buy something of their own choosing if they're enjoying themselves is more than reasonable.

In a game that I paid full retail price for, and pay a monthly subscription on top of that, and will soon be charging another lump sum for an "expansion," there is no excuse for why we are being gouged for extra cash. It is completely disrespectful to the customers. If you think cash shop purchases in a sub-based game are "extras" that go back into creating more content for the rest of us, you are hopelessly naive. And if you brush it off as "just the industry standard," then you are part of the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

I like tasteful cash shops.

I don't understand how you can say this at all. You like that instead of minions, mounts, etc., being included in the game as they normally were, they instead are being sectioned off and charged extra for? You like paying more money on top of your subscription? You like that a unique horsey skin in a video game costs nearly twice the amount of two months' subscription? Do you even realize that you are the consumer, in this equation? You are basically saying "I like being ripped off. I like it when a corporation devalues their product in order to sell supplements for additional cost." I think it is pathetic that so many people on these forums have absolutely no concept of the value of their own money, and have no impetus at all to look out for their own interests as consumers.
11-30-2014, 03:08 PM
Abriael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alukah

Are you able to back up that claim? It would be good to see your sources before calling that other post "completely false and inaccurate".

Simple experience. The chash shop includes things that are either reskins of existing models or pretty simple model changes. No systems are developed purposely for them. That's something experienced developers (or even interns, mind) can do easily and with a smallish budget.

The budget/revenue ratio of cosmetic mictrotransactions is notoriously extremely favorable, and every company works in a cycle of revenue and re-investment. Of course there are some that will never accept this, as it cuts the (non-existent) legs under their agenda.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccharin

And you have proof of that. Not one MMO has a cash shop increased content.

Obviously false. Both WoW and EVE online (which are the only other two P2P MMORPG which are successful in the market) both have a cash shop, and keep getting tons of content, just like FFXIV.

Quote:

It's not "fully featured" if there's stuff behind a pay wall. It feels like you're one of these people who would rather get out their credit card than actually play the game to earn stuff.

I suggest you pick up a dictionary and check your terms. A game can be fully featured and not grant the whole content. Features and content are two different things. You indeed have access to the full features of the game. There's just some marginal content behind the paywall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHS

The wedding ceremony and the mount were already pushed heavy by Yoshi and Company in pictures and letter from producer live info months ago and were talked about like they were gonna be content in the game like any other content. Never did they say cash shop item. Must have been a last minute decision to suck more money out of us. I think its sick and retarded to put emotional stuff like getting married in a cash shop when we have gil.

Which is exactly why getting married is not in the cash shop. The full fledged ceremony is available for free. What is in the cash shop are simply accessories. Any more false arguments to share with us?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jynx

Everyone has their own line where the cash shop is a bad idea. Personally I'm against it alltogether, due to how it effects the development pipeline for content, secondary considerations on almost any game system is going to be looked over by the marketing department and the question will be asked.

The marketing department will *always* have a say on what is put in the game, no matter if it's paid or free. That's just how game development works. The effect on the development pipeline can only be positive. More profit = More budget = More resources = More content. Simple equation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

While I agree with most of what you are saying, this is a very myopic and flowery opinion of how profits are actually used in business. Profits beyond a certain point are indeed "put in the bank or hidden under the mattress" to meet investor expectations of quarterly and annual earnings and profits. While SE and FFXIV do not have "investors" they do have shareholders and those shareholders are more important to them than any normal consumer (as it is with most if not all traded corporations).

No one said that ALL the revenue will be reinvested, but a large part of it is. That goes for every revenue generator of a company. In the end the more revenue = more resources equation is steel-clad, no matter what percentage of that revenue is re-invested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I don't understand how you can say this at all. You like that instead of minions, mounts, etc., being included in the game as they normally were, they instead are being sectioned off and charged extra for?

You assume that those minions and mount would be included in the game if they weren't in the cash shop. That's a tall assumption to make and that's not how development works. Everything is budgeted. Those items have most probably been given a budget *because* they were made for microtransactions, not the other way around.

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