Stat Priority as a WHM.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Actually I'm going to bash you because of...



Outside of the current coil, you can gear up pretty much however you want and be absolutely fine. It's not that your setup is the best, it's that it simply doesn't matter. Gear full parry if you really want, it'll be NP, you'll still be able to waltz through any 4 man + CT + previous coil as long as you are doing a reasonable job of playing your class.

But please, your 'No DPS ever' stance... Consider that rather than a pure healer, we are support, here to help the group in whatever way we can. DPS is an indisputable part of our toolkit and can help immensely at times.

Oh and also, accuracy has zero affect on heals whatsoever. It's only really relevant for certain safe DPS phases.

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Healers who adamantly refuse to help DPS even when it's obvious that they have nothing better to do baffle me.

my WHM is max piety build. I logged out on my SMN cant give the exact stat calculations, but my max piety gives me around 5200-5300 MANA and i sit around ~274 ish DET. With my Det gear on i reach somewhere around ~338 DET. After spamming Cure I on myself with both different builds i only noticed a ~50 HP difference in the potency on my cures. The only thing is that instead of 5k plus mana I was sitting around 4500-4600.

I'd rather have the extra MANA than 50+ more hp on heals.
I think the max piety build is better. Especially for progression since ppl will be dying and taking avoidable damage when learning new mechanics.

Dont quote me on this following sentence, but a while back i was discussing healers with one of the officers of my old FC. He mains WHM. He really loves parsing his HPS and overhealing and all that advance healer stuff. (Lets call it FFXIV Sabermetrics lol). He told me that after doing the math (2.3 build) a max piety WHM would be able to cast 200 more cure 1's over the course of the fight than a max det. The reason being they have more natural mp regen per tick because of the larger mana pull.

the more cure 1s u can cast, the more free cure procs u get, further helping with mana conservation. So whille the lower DET means i have to cast more spells through out the fight, it also means i will be asking for ballad less often

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Originally Posted by DarkLordCthulhu

my WHM is max piety build. I logged out on my SMN cant give the exact stat calculations, but my max piety gives me around 5200-5300 MANA and i sit around ~274 ish DET. With my Det gear on i reach somewhere around ~338 DET. After spamming Cure I on myself with both different builds i only noticed a ~50 HP difference in the potency on my cures. The only thing is that instead of 5k plus mana I was sitting around 4500-4600.

I'd rather have the extra MANA than 50+ more hp on heals.
I think the max piety build is better. Especially for progression since ppl will be dying and taking avoidable damage when learning new mechanics.

Dont quote me on this following sentence, but a while back i was discussing healers with one of the officers of my old FC. He mains WHM. He really loves parsing his HPS and overhealing and all that advance healer stuff. (Lets call it FFXIV Sabermetrics lol). He told me that after doing the math (2.3 build) a max piety WHM would be able to cast 200 more cure 1's over the course of the fight than a max det. The reason being they have more natural mp regen per tick because of the larger mana pull.

the more cure 1s u can cast, the more free cure procs u get, further helping with mana conservation. So whille the lower DET means i have to cast more spells through out the fight, it also means i will be asking for ballad less often

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Each piety gives you a little less than 8 mp; we'll call it 8 even for ease of mathing. Assuming you cast something right on the pull, never cap on MP, and thus never miss on regen, you will regain 400% of your MP over the course of a ten minute fight (2% per tick, times 20 ticks per minute, times 10 minutes), thus under ideal circumstances each point of piety grants you 40 MP (8 base plus 32 regen) over a ten minute fight. Cure costs 133 MP at level 50; 200 of them costs 26,600 MP. That's 665 piety worth of MP If it's a TWENTY minute fight, it's still 369 piety worth of mp.

I believe that the most piety you can get from gear in 2.4 is 278; it requires a mash up of Coil and Poetics gear (with both Poetics 130 and 120 rings). The reason I say believe is that I don't know whether you can meld more piety onto the crafted gear than the i130 stuff has; I doubt it, but I'm not sure. Using 278 piety as the mark, you can add to that 278 piety with food and party buff, but it still won't bring you to 369 piety. Even if it did, you'd have to compete against a gear set with near-zero piety to make the gap wide enough.

I have some strong reservations about your friend's math, is what I'm saying.

when it comes to SS please dont forget that it does not only increase casting speed of all skills but also decrease GCD. not by much (see here) but it does
it may not be enough to go full SS but it sure is nice to get as much SS as you can get withour sacrifying anything else
im still quite new to this game but for now i priorize piety and SS over the other stats

More than likely going a full SS build just like last two patches. It makes the most sense to me considering how much spell speed is available and how little determination there is at BiS. The endgame weapon tossing spell speed at us every new coil is a clear indicator, that they want us stacking as much speed as possible. I'm not a huge fan of spell speed but I love what it does when Presence of Mind and Fey Glow are up simultaneously. Insta-cast Stone II? Yes please!

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Though ss does make a bigger difference to blms. I don't know why, maybe it's because it's offensive magic? But for healers spells and buffs it's garbage

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Becoz it's the only class that doesn't have the secondary effect of the spell-speed : Mana problems (or TP for physical classes with skill speed)
But still, I like my build Max Piety + as much spell-speed as possible on my WHM.

End-game fights in this game are like this usually : You heave almost nothing to heal for some times, and then, burst of dmg for 10-15sec, then relativly calm again for 30-50sec, and that's usually where the wipes are, more spell-speed you have, easyer those burst of dmg will be, and slighty more determinations, or crit rate, wont help me in those cases.

The other problem, was also asking for ballad (witch reduce the dmg of the bard, that's not a good thing), if I can do without, even if ppl take avoidable dmg, or if I raise, this is a good thing, and that's why I play full Piety.

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Originally Posted by deos

when it comes to SS please dont forget that it does not only increase casting speed of all skills but also decrease GCD. not by much (see here) but it does
it may not be enough to go full SS but it sure is nice to get as much SS as you can get withour sacrifying anything else
im still quite new to this game but for now i priorize piety and SS over the other stats

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This has been discussed at length in other threads, but I'll summarize the argument against spell speed stacking on healers (or any caster but BLM, really):

- Healers generally do not spam their skills as soon as they become available, unlike BLMs. This largely eliminates the benefit of the slightly reduced GCD. Unless you sit there spamming your Cures (building massive threat from overhealing) or spamming Stones until you run out of MP, you are not seeing an advantage to the marginally decreased GCD.

- The decrease in casting time is also a marginalized benefit because good healers learn their fights quickly and are ready to queue up their heals moments before significant spike damage actually occurs. We call this "precasting." You account for the cast time on your spells and anticipate the occurrence and severity of damage to the tank and to the party to time your heals appropriately. Bad healers wait until damage has occurred, take a beat to process that they should hit a heal button, and then execute; skilled healers expect scripted damage and time their casts so that the heal comes into effect as or immediately after the damage is incurred. Spell speed does not help much if you are already healing correctly.

- The actual decrease in casting time is so puny that you can barely notice it. Only spells with a base casting time of 2.5 or greater start to see a noticeable benefit with massive SS stacking. Main single-target heals for both classes have base casting times of 2.0, and you spend the majority of your time casting them. Even then, you're precasting them for anything that matters.

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Originally Posted by Artiste

Becoz it's the only class that doesn't have the secondary effect of the spell-speed : Mana problems (or TP for physical classes with skill speed).

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No, it's because BLMs perpetually chain hard casts for damage, with occasional proc usage woven between said hard casts. Hence why the GCD and cast time reduction actually make a difference for them.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Actually I'm going to bash you because of...



Outside of the current coil, you can gear up pretty much however you want and be absolutely fine. It's not that your setup is the best, it's that it simply doesn't matter. Gear full parry if you really want, it'll be NP, you'll still be able to waltz through any 4 man + CT + previous coil as long as you are doing a reasonable job of playing your class.

But please, your 'No DPS ever' stance... Consider that rather than a pure healer, we are support, here to help the group in whatever way we can. DPS is an indisputable part of our toolkit and can help immensely at times.

Oh and also, accuracy has zero affect on heals whatsoever. It's only really relevant for certain safe DPS phases.

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You got me. Last night, I was asked to Holy spam the adds in Shiva Ex because we failed twice due to low dps. Surprisingly, I made a difference.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Healers who adamantly refuse to help DPS even when it's obvious that they have nothing better to do baffle me.

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Yep, just like BRDs who refuse to use Ballad because he don't want a dip in his deeps.