DPS Tool

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Originally Posted by TestSubject09

Why are features getting the shaft because of potential conflict? when in reality this game already has plenty of that with Duty Finder elitists? ... hypocritical to the core.

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Because they aren't oblivious about the elitism issue and they don't want to add more fuel to the fire.

Before they implement things they have to weight the pros and cons, with the plague of elitists in this game I can see why the scale goes to the bad side.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Because they aren't oblivious about the elitism issue and they don't want to add more fuel to the fire.

Before they implement things they have to weight the pros and cons, with the plague of elitists in this game I can see why the scale goes to the bad side.

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Its a poor reason though isn't it? so much hidden information is not a good thing.... for anyone, not even newcomers...

Just like Voice chat... the only way console and pc gamers would be able to effectively communicate..... that is used in every other MP genre... is not allowed... because some people may get insulted....

Its the Nintendo-babying everyone attitude all over again... and look how well that worked out for them.... decades behind in online gaming.

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Originally Posted by TestSubject09

Why are features getting the shaft because of potential conflict? when in reality this game already has plenty of that with Duty Finder elitists? ... hypocritical to the core.

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Because as long as casual players are seen as the biggest source of income, SE simply won't allow anything that will cause them to run off and take their money elsewhere.

The future of this game will likely go as follows:

Over the next few months/years (if it even takes a year) the game will bleed subscriptions with each new mmo release. Whether it be Arche Age, Blade & Soul, the next WoW expansion or any of the countless generic free mmos to pop up. The casuals will look for the next flavor of the month mmo or go back to WoW like they always do. At that point either SE will mistake the cause of bleeding subscriptions for the game not being casual enough and make it even easier or they'll finally start catering to hardcore players and FFXI fans like they should have been from the start (because they already had that audience begging to be catered to when no one else is). The question is will there be any left to cater to by that point.

Pretty much every decision they've made for the game has been based on what they think will make them the most money rather than what would make the best game. Until their delusion that catering solely to casual players is a good long term investment is revealed to be the delusion it always was you can look forward to this sort of thing continuing.

I really don't understand SE's stance. We already have a form of DPS check in raid bosses that are really very tightly tuned. If ther were more room for error, then I could understand their argument, but alas.

A personal dps check would be ideal if they wanted to avoid any major dps-shaming. A special dummy, or anything to help players pin down their routine and understand how effective they are and can improve.

If it was up to me we would have full featured DPS meters built in.

However when I consider SE's perspective, and their decision to remain appealing to everyone from hardcore to casual, I agree with many decisions made. I wouldn't agree if they were making a game just for me, but I understand they aren't. They don't want to be a small niche game.

When I say I agree that a DPS tool would create some harassment and discrimination, it is only because it's true. I was only rewording their answer and saying I agree with the statement. My personal feelings on that is "so what, get over it, etc".

In my OP I was saying I agree with the answer they stated. I was basically saying "ok I agree with your stance because your reason is true enough".

Taking into account what they have said, I was simply trying to find a way they could let us see some raw numbers. I wasn't trying to bring rise to a discussion about philosophies on the DPS meter topic on a whole.

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Originally Posted by zeroumus

i am by no means and elite player, but people being called out for not performing as well as others on dps with their character is .... discrimination? You are not helping those players by hiding the fact that they under perform, and you dont help the game as whole by doing this.

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Well imagine in Party Finder people would advertised, if your DPS not equal this Amount, you will be replaced or kick. Same with Duty Finder, people will be ass and vote kick because one perform more poorly or not putting max dps. Some people just want to enjoy playing the game without the harassment and discrimination, I agree with the answer putting such tools will lead to this and a bad community, take wow for example. There is a reason parsed is not allow.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

There is no doubt a tool like this could be useful. The question is how many people will use it for it's purpose and how many will abuse it and use it to discriminate.

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Judging by how God dang bad this community is...a lot of people.
And it'll be holy hell in DF with it too. God forbid.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Well imagine in Party Finder people would advertised, if your DPS not equal this Amount, you will be replaced or kick.

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What is wrong with that? Why are people not allowed to choose who they want to group with?

If there is a learning party or one which labels itself "no elitists", I'm not going to join and make their lives unpleasant. Why do "anti-elitists" want to get into the top end groups so badly when they don't meet requirements?

This community is worse than WoW's in many ways, just different ways.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Well imagine in Party Finder people would advertised, if your DPS not equal this Amount, you will be replaced or kick. Same with Duty Finder, people will be ass and vote kick because one perform more poorly or not putting max dps. Some people just want to enjoy playing the game without the harassment and discrimination, I agree with the answer putting such tools will lead to this and a bad community, take wow for example. There is a reason parsed is not allow.

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That would be a good point, if it was a problem...

1) You can't kick people for being bad in Duty Finder... its not a valid reason. (unless they are obviously trolling) .... if you do, they can report you for harrasment.

2) Party finder? just don't join that group then? they know what they want, and they should be entitled to want good players... why shouldn't they?

Personally, I'm on the fence with the subject. on WoW, I used Recount, primarily to gauge how -I- was doing in comparison to the rest of the group, that's probably not the basic purpose of it, but it helped me improve alot. Parsers aren't a terrible bane on MMOs, like some make them out, they are good, coherent tools to improve. I also agree that people should be able to choose who they play with, and people aren't entitled to be carried, I know if I even FEEL like I didn't perform up to par on a boss fight, I pass on the loot, regardless if it's an upgrade or not.

On the other hand, though, I also agree that it DOES cause a lot of problems. People take things overboard, and that's just as bad as not having it. "constructive" criticism is a great thing, unfortunately, people forget how to do that most of the time "You suck you @#$!ing noob gtfo and uninstall you piece of shit" is never a good way to approach things. It's not being thin or thick skinned, it's a common courtesy, you're not playing with NPCs.

I guess, in the end, if they make them available I'll be happy, if they're not then there's bound to be some -other- means we can track our dps, even if it's a pain in the butt to do so (I've not tried, but could we use combat log to figure it out, judging from x amount of attacks dealing xx amount of damage for y amount of time? and then calculate that way?)