Elementalist => Red Mage/Geomancer Job idea

Huge update:

Elementalist:
- Explained the Arcane Cycle more and fixed wording.
- Listed what Elemental Spell went to which element in the cycle.
- Elementalshift now also increases your chance of receiving a Tactical Wheel buff by 15%
- Main Gauche now has an 80% chance of reducing damage received by 25% and countering an opponent's nearby attack with 50% of the damage.
- Wasp Sting's DoT now only lasts 10 seconds.
- Ripose's Bleeding DoT now only lasts 5 seconds.
- Point-In-Line is now an instant cast skill that automatically parries and counters a targeted foes attack for 75% of the damage. Timing MUST be exact in order to use correctly. Not all attacks can be countered.
- Added On GCD and Off GCD lists.
- Double-Touch now increases the damage done by melee attacks/skills by 25% when Point-In-Line is successfully used.
- Tactical Wheel now has a 50% of adding a Tactical Wheel buff when the user uses an Elemental spell. Each spell now has its own buff.

Red Mage:
- Spike now damages any attacking foe by 25% of the damage they inflicted.
- Elemental Burst no longer has an Arcane Cycle stack cost.
- Defined Doublecast better.
- Added On GCD and Off GCD.

Geomancer:
- Nature's Wrath boosts the enmity of Geomancer's abilities as well.
- Seal Evil no longer has an Arcane Cycle stack cost.
- Better define of Terrain
- Terrain now effects all party members who enter its AoE.
- Terrain also inflicts the corresponding Elemental Spell's DoT for 5 seconds to any enemy standing within 4 yalms of caster when they cast the Terrain spell.
- Terrain now increase your chances of receiving a Tactical Wheel buff to 75% when using the corresponding Elemental spell in it.
- Added On GCD and Off GCD.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

- Point-In-Line: What if Point-In-Line was an instant cast-ability that automatically parried the enemy's attack? You have to use it at the right time for it to work and get the Double-Touch trait buff.

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One thing you could do is simply have it take effect (at no cost) only when you are perfectly in front of the enemy and have that enemy targeted. This would be automatic if you had threat, but you could potentially play with the mechanic by allowing the ELM to parry attacks not aimed at you. ELM would thereby become more supportive, moving into tank position for AAs and dodging back out before cleaves. Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Arcane Cycle
- Casting the spells in the correct order is necessary BUT you can start anywhere on the cycle you want, I just started it with Fire because it's the first spell you get.
- The Arcane Cycle stack is placed on the enemy. For abilities that use Arcane Cycles, you have to have a foe with stacks selected to use them.
- The Arcane Cycle is based on the Attunement debuff and using the opposite elemental spell to it. Example: You use Burn and wait for the DoT to end and the Fire-Attunement debuff to pop up, you need to use Drown, then Shock when the Water-Attunement debuff is up, and so on until you finish of with casting Burn on an Ice-Attuned foe.
-You don't have to cast the spells on the same enemy. You just need to cast it on an enemy that has the correct attunement debuff on them. This is where RDM's Elemental Burst and Doublecast comes in. I'll remove the Arcane Cycle cost on Elemental Burst to make it easier.
- As for the 18 seconds, the last trait ELM gets at 48, Cycle Through, reduces DoT's time to 9. I had designed the DoTs to force players to use magic and melee combat to maximize damage versus specializing in one or the other like the other DPSs.
-You can have multiple Arcane Cycle stacks on multiple foes.

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So does each reversal (fire-->water or ice-->fire, etc.) constitute a stack, or each full rotation of elements? In either case, if the Arcane Cycle is basically foe-only, there really is no free-floating concept to it to speak of (not to say that you implied there was; it just tends to seem a level less significant to the class when the concept is simply a result of action). Instead, each attunement debuff simply grants a stack of charge, <Arcane Cycle>, whenever an opposite element is used, and certain abilities then consume that stack.

Basically, it makes me wish there was a native version of the Cycles as well, such as an attunement buff on the ELM itself, that required strategy to sync up with certain future wants for the elemental uses. This complexity would also be aided by having more than just Burst and Doublecast to spread about mobs, syncing up their debuff elements differently.

In a lot of dungeons, mobs don't last 18 seconds. You may want to drop the original time down to 9, or have the attunement effect take place after a certain minimum amount of damage has occured, where DoT crits could accelerate the readying of the debuff, and it on average goes off about 9 seconds with no crits and faster with them. "Cycle Through" could probably use a better name as long as the speed of elemental wheel rotations is its only major element effected.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Red Mage
-Red Mage was designed to be a single-target-supporting DPS versus Bard, which is a group-supporting DPS (at least in my eyes it is. :B ).
- I had designed their abilities to be a bit lackluster just for that reason, Enchant and Doublecast. I also did it to give them things that Bard, the only other support job, didn't have, like a debuff-remover (to help healers) and something to give spike damage to tanks.
- Doublecast was designed to help spread Enchantments and Elemental Spell DoTs. It allows you to cast two of the same spell on up to two targets. With Enchant up, the two spells become Enchantments.
- Elemental Burst is RDM's equivalent to ACN/SMN/SCH's Bane but instead of using it after placing a DoT on an enemy, you use it before to make it an AoE.
- I'll also be boosting Spike's damage output. >w>

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Even as a support, RDM doesn't have to have lackluster abilities. Try to imagine scenarios that really stick out to you and make you want to play the job. Who all does it pair with, when and why, and how does it affect the linked party members' rotations? If it doesn't affect their gameplay at all (not that I recommend that a paired class should have to outright renegotiate its rotations to better benefit from RDM), such as a general dps increase or a minor benefit that doesn't allow for any extra action or opportunity (e.g. a skill speed increase that doesn't allow for an extra ability per shorter rotation), it will be that much less interesting.

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To be honest, I still think ELM doesn't really have a place as a class, especially as *the* rapier class. I'd much rather see Fencer used with the Fencer weapons, and for its elemental abilities to seem only either coincidental or stylistically-matching to an otherwise physical repertoire. I think that also brings more of the unique spellblade style of RDM than if starting from a caster class that happens to carry a sword and uses a couple sword finishers. I'd recommend reading MartaDemireux's take on the RDM. It's not exactly what I'm recommending by any means, but it will give a better example than I can illustrate in writing here.

It would be interesting if geo came from cnj and they changed cure > banish, cure 2 > banish 2 etc. So they would be light element attacks. Along with the other ideas you had maybe.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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Thank you again from the critique, I like input. :D

To address your points:

Point-In-Line: Here is the current version I have created: "Point-in-Line: An instant cast ability that automatically parries and counters a targeted foe's attack for 75% of the damage. Timing must be correct in order to use." And to go with it, "Double-Touch (Trait): Whenever Point-in-Line is successfully used, the user will receive a "Double-Touch" buff for 15 seconds. Double-Touch boost the damage done by melee attacks/skills by 25% ".

Arcane Cycle:
- Each rotation of the elements gives a stack, like: 1st spell > 2nd spell (1st Element's weakness)> 3rd spell (2nd's weakness)> 4th spell (3rd's weakness) > 5th spell (4th's weakness) > 6th spell (5th's weakness) > 1st spell (6th's weakness).

- As for why the stack goes onto the enemy, I want them to feel like an enfeeble/debuff, they would stack on your enemy and you would use it against them. I had also designed it to be more in use during longer battles like bosses and trials, with fencing being more for quick damage and dealing with trash mobs. However, I can see your point about it not being very "free-floating" and have to concur. I have been playing with some ideas about splitting the cycle two shorter cycles that would add the stacks to you or foe depending on which stack is used (Fire > Thunder > Wind > Fire and Water > Ice > Earth >Water) and an abilities that would let your place or grab tallies from one or the other. That way, you can use stacks that are on you for somethings and stacks of foes for other things.

- As for the DoT time, what if I make them 9 seconds long and change Cycle Through to something like "For every successful opposing spell cast on an Attunement debuff, 1 second will be taken off of the Elemental Spells DoT. DoT times can only go down to x seconds."?

Red Mage:
- I really didn't want to give them a specific scenario to stick out in, I wanted them to have fluidity via their utility, with Enchant being their main tool to augment the party's strength. I mean other then WHM/SCH (complement each other), WHM/BRD (Manasong), and DRG/BRD (Impulse Drive + Disembowel to boost BRD's damage), I don't know of any other pairings.
- Having said all that, I can see how lame Spike, Aetheric Cleanse, and Elemental Burst can look. I might remove Aetheric Cleanse for something more interesting.

Fencer vs Elementalist
I have read Matra's Fencer => Red Mage/Mystic Knight Proposal. Matra's proposals are were what got me interested in making class ideas (I have a second class/job idea thread floating around somewhere). >w>()
For me, I don't like the idea of a Fencer just stumbling into magic, it just seems random. I also felt that Red Mage using the spells from other classes (Conjurer and Thaumaturge) and having none of their own didn't fit with XIV, who gave each magic job the bulk of spells via their class.
The reason I picked Elementalist as the class is because, just like Fencer, it came from the Tactic Advanced series and uses a rapier (you even need a Fencer's skill to unlock both Red Mage and Elementalist) but also uses debuffing, elemental spells. I just fused the two together and left Elementalist's name because it seemed more descriptive of the class.
As for the elemental blade idea, I would rather save that for an actual Spell Blade/Mystic Knight/Rune Knight/etc job (maybe for a two-handed sword or another special sword). More jobs, more things to do. ;D

Update:

Arcane Cycle:
- There are now two Arcane Cycles: the Incorporeal Arcane Cycle (Fire => Thunder => Wind => Fire) and the Corporeal Arcane Cycle (Water => Ice => Earth => Water)
- Completing a Incorporeal Arcane Cycle places a tally on the selected enemy target (as a none removable-debuff).
- Completing a Corporeal Arcane Cycle places a tally on the caster (as a none removable-buff).

Elementalist:
- All the Elemental Spell's DoT are now 9 seconds long.
- Osmosis now costs 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected foe. It damages the targeted foe, converts 50% of it into MP, and adds 1 Corporeal Arcane tally to the caster's stack.
- Main Gauche now costs 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster.
- Featherstrike has been replaced by "Sabrage.
- Sabrage: Uses 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle stack from the user. Does physical damage to a selected target from up to 15 yalms away and adds 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally to their stack.
- Checkmate now uses all Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tallies on a selected foe.
- Cycle Through's new effect: For every successful opposing spell cast on an Attunement debuff, 1 second will be taken off of the caster's Elemental Spells' DoT. DoT times can only go down to 4 seconds long. Does not effect Red Mage's Enchant or Geomancer's Terrain.

Red Mage:
- Spike's damage now increases to 35% if the target has an Enchant buff on them.
- Elemental Burst now increase your chances of getting a Tactical Wheel buff by 5% for every enemy hit by the spell.
- Aetheric Cleanse has been replaced by Salute.
- Salute: Uses 5 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tallies from the caster. A selected ally will receive 3 seconds to their oldest buff that was placed on them by the caster.
- Enchant now uses 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster.

Geomancer:
- Seal Evil now uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected target.
- Sinkhole now uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected target.
- Pulse of Life now uses all Corporeal Arcane tallies from the caster.
- Terrain now uses 2 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tallies from a selected target.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Point-In-Line: Here is the current version I have created: "Point-in-Line: An instant cast ability that automatically parries and counters a targeted foe's attack for 75% of the damage. Timing must be correct in order to use." And to go with it, "Double-Touch (Trait): Whenever Point-in-Line is successfully used, the user will receive a "Double-Touch" buff for 15 seconds. Double-Touch boost the damage done by melee attacks/skills by 25% ".

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...Now it's too strong. Just consider this for instance: the lowest average potency of any melee's attacks (not buffs or debuffs) is 198 over 3 abilities (Monk's BS-True-Snap), or in a single ability: 150 for DRG (presents chain) and 180 for Monk, while Haymaker deals only 170 potency. In general, they're just not very good. Haymaker coming from a MNK has the advantage of having no positional, but that's it. Here you'd be gaining a combined Heavy Thrust and Twin Snakes for a single Off-GCD mitigation ability.

Arcane Cycle:
- Each rotation of the elements gives a stack, like: 1st spell > 2nd spell (1st Element's weakness)> 3rd spell (2nd's weakness)> 4th spell (3rd's weakness) > 5th spell (4th's weakness) > 6th spell (5th's weakness) > 1st spell (6th's weakness).

- As for why the stack goes onto the enemy, I want them to feel like an enfeeble/debuff, they would stack on your enemy and you would use it against them. I had also designed it to be more in use during longer battles like bosses and trials, with fencing being more for quick damage and dealing with trash mobs. However, I can see your point about it not being very "free-floating" and have to concur. I have been playing with some ideas about splitting the cycle two shorter cycles that would add the stacks to you or foe depending on which stack is used (Fire > Thunder > Wind > Fire and Water > Ice > Earth >Water) and an abilities that would let your place or grab tallies from one or the other. That way, you can use stacks that are on you for somethings and stacks of foes for other things.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

As for the DoT time, what if I make them 9 seconds long and change Cycle Through to something like "For every successful opposing spell cast on an Attunement debuff, 1 second will be taken off of the Elemental Spells DoT. DoT times can only go down to x seconds."?

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Given that they go off on a global 3-second tick, this would have the disadvantage of losing over-time damage. Why not just have a half chance to consume a tick (3 seconds), dealing that damage instantly?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I don't know of any other pairings.

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Dragoon--> Piercing attacks (DRGs and BRDs), Warrior-->Slashing attacks (WARs and PLDs), Bards-->Magic attacks (via Foe; SMN, BLM, WHM, SCH), Monks-->Blunt attacks (Monks). Every job is supported, among which only Monk is self-supported, and only Bard cannot significantly support itself with the ability which supports others.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Fencer vs Elementalist
For me, I don't like the idea of a Fencer just stumbling into magic, it just seems random. I also felt that Red Mage using the spells from other classes (Conjurer and Thaumaturge) and having none of their own didn't fit with XIV, who gave each magic job the bulk of spells via their class.
The reason I picked Elementalist as the class is because, just like Fencer, it came from the Tactic Advanced series and uses a rapier (you even need a Fencer's skill to unlock both Red Mage and Elementalist) but also uses debuffing, elemental spells. I just fused the two together and left Elementalist's name because it seemed more descriptive of the class.
As for the elemental blade idea, I would rather save that for an actual Spell Blade/Mystic Knight/Rune Knight/etc job (maybe for a two-handed sword or another special sword). More jobs, more things to do. ;D

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It's for the same reason that you wouldn't want to preclude the those jobs that I wouldn't want to see the rapier fit to a non-Fencer class. Aesthetically, GLD already has access to virtually every type of sword except for oriental-style and fencing weapons. I'd rather avoid further overlap, especially with the likely eventual arrival of ninjas and samurai, and find Fencer to be the fundamental rapier/fencing-weapon class.

That said, I'd always imagined Red Mage, in FFXIV's more minimalistic system, as having basically only one or two cast abilities (usually one GCD for true casts and an oGCD for 'releases') that nonetheless could function as almost any cast spell within RDM's library as would be reasonably transferable to its range of powers in FFXIV (given the relatively restrictive sharing of key moves like cleanses, etc., in this game). Your moves would influence the elements stored in your blade, for example, the result (whether normally called Fire or Thunder or Stone or Blast or Burn or whatever else) then being released by a single button. That's probably why, as much as I've never really thought little of RDM's magic abilities, or their frequency of casting, it's always seemed closest to a Fencer to me, at least among any incarnations possible in FFXIV.

Update:

Arcane Cycle:
- (Re)Added a third Cycle: The Complete Arcane Cycle (Fire => Water => Thunder => Earth => Wind => Ice => Fire)
- Upon completing a Complete Arcane Cycle, the target foe will receive one Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally and the user will receive one Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally.
- To progress through a cycle, the caster must cast the next Elemental Spell in the cycle on the previous spell's Attuned debuff.
- A cycle is complete when the caster recasts the first spell they cast in the cycle on the correct Attuned debuff.

Elementalist:
- Point-In-Line now cost 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the targeted foe and 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster. Also, it now only counters with 25% of the damage it received.
- The Double-Touch buff now only boosts your physical damage by 10%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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To address your points:

Point-In-Line
Here is my current revision of Point-In-Line: Uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected foe and 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster. An instant cast ability that automatically parries and counters the targeted foe's attack for 25% of the damage. Timing must be correct in order to use.
I also reduced the Double-Touch buff's physical damage increase to 10%.

Dot Time and Cycle Through
I made Cycle Through's effect only be able to lower to 4 seconds. I do have to agree that that does ruin the damage over time though, I'll have to revise it...
I'm not sure what you mean by "consume a tick, dealing damage instantly". Do you mean like giving a chance to add what the DoT's damage would have been to the initial spell and places the attune debuff automatically?

Red Mage and Pairing
I had designed the Enchant Buffs to do that. Courage to help with Melee DPS and Tanks damage output, Calm to help with Healers healing, Enlightened to help Mages with their damage output, Steadfast to help damage mitigation (both physical and magical) on Tanks, Energize helps anyone speed up actions, and Refresh to help Mages with MP regain. I gave them broad support versus specific support.

More than likely RDM will come from BLM/WHM. There were some spells in 1.0 that disappeared in ARR, RDM specific spells, such as phalanx, shock spikes, and I think refresh was there as well. I would be extremely disappointed if they made a RDM anything other than what it was in FFXI, a buffer/debuffer. Paralyze, which is already in the game, slow, dia, haste, en- and bar- spells (could be aoe), gravity, bind, refresh, spike spells, phalanx, chainspell, ect., fast cast passive as well as an enhancement to enfeebles, so they work on bosses. The elemental damage line isn't necessary.