Yoshi - Are there any plans to make the cross class system better/more fun?

I would like to see them expand the cross class skills ability so that you can pull from more than just the two classes. Open it up and allow some customization. Reward players who level multiple classes by letting us pull more skills. Because, right now, if you're one of those who only concentrate on one job and only level what you need to cross class for that one job, there's really no incentive to level anything else. Encourage people to play all the classes by rewarding them with the reward of being able to equip other skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

^

---

This. Options aren't really options when they become expectations. Communities always figure out what is "most effective" and then make that set up an expectation - a demand and you're right back to... everyone subs Ninja or... RDM Haste Refresh cycle and Debuff only no feeding TP please etc. etc.

That is a community issue - something they've done fairly well to structure within the game to avoid players being alienated because they made a choice that later turned out to be "the wrong" choice according to the community.

I am not talking about revamping the system. I am talking about some slight improvements. A few more skills in the pool for each class without increasing the number of slots. I would also love if they made classes a better choice. Here is a "off the top of my head" example of a way to do that.

If a class has at least 7 DOW skills equipped they gain +10 STR (or any other stats you want to give them like crit/det)
If a class has at least 7 DOM skills equipped they gain +10 PiE (same as before add whatever stats you would. balance isnt important when giving an example.)

or

If a class has at least 3 of another jobs skills equipped they gain a bonus to that jobs main stat.

Lancer has 3 PUG skills and 3 MRD skills. He gains +5 STR for each (so 10 STR). He also grabbed 3 GLA skills so he gets +5 VIT. Also instead of just adding base stats you can add a few of the other stats. PUG is STR+SKill speed, MRD is STR+Parry, LNC is STR+crit, GLA is VIT+Det and so on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Except this is where player skill comes in. I've seen plenty of dragoons and monks fail to pump out the DPS because they don't understand positioning or think their dots are useless.

---

Just because bad DRGs/MNKs are stupid doesn't necessarily mean that good DRGs/MNKs are skilled. Every job will always play exactly how the job is supposed to play - the cross class skills are the only things that can be changed and there are too few to actually play a job any different than someone else. If we had more options, we could actually change what we use from fight to fight, depending on what we need at the time. As an example, lets say a DRG could cross class Blunt Arrow - he could use it on T2 and provide useful utility, however on fights that don't need silencing he could use a different cross class skill. That kind of diversity is fun and it adds more skill to the class instead of just "do your rotation, dodge the AOEs, win".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trayes

^

---

I would hold out for a Merit system similar to FFXI.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Merit_Points

These allowed you to continue to push your character beyond their normal limit with additional stats, abilities, and traits.

Each Job had Ability/Trait merits that had their own individual cap per Job with different caps per trait or skill. Additionally your character could advance it's baseline stats - but you could only advance so many of these attributes since their effects were across all Jobs.

It sounds like you're yearning for a system that just may take some time and perhaps a level cap adjustment before being implemented.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Raise the level cap and have more interesting cross-class skills in that level range. A level 55 skill doesn't have to be better than a level 5 skill because a level 55 character is going to have the level 5 skill AND the level 55 skill. Therefore I don't think there's a game balance issue there.

---

A level 55 character would have access to 15-20 more skills, not 1. It's also just not about having one ability, it's about the combination of abilities. You know what had the highest 20s burst damage in the game in 2.0 (excepting BLM Flare exploit)? MRD. A combination of Straight Shot, Internal Release, Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, and Berserk (abilities from 4 classes) made MRD hit like a pair of semis duct-taped together and powered by a solid fuel rocket. It's still a powerful combination, albeit about 15% less damage now.

Ideally, there would be more room for choice, but it doesn't make sense right now from a balance standpoint to offer access to certain other abilities. It would not surprise me in the slightest if Thrill of Battle eventually became cross-class, for example. Right now, though, it would shore up pretty much the sole weakness PLD has compared to WAR by filling the gaps in the 30s mitigation rotation. That is going to change long-term one way or the other, though, so giving access to ToB will just let DRG and MNK survive mechanics more easily down the road.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Only a little off topic, some kind of merit system would be nice eventually.

---

No, it wouldn't. The last thing we need is another layer of vertical progression at endgame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Like what if DRK branches off from MRD but uses STR or INT as a primary?

---

It is likely to do so, and use STR like a proper melee DPS. You are never going to choose between stats, because going all-out on one must be the best route unless melded equipment is better, in which case the job is overpowered due to being maximized at a lower gear level than is required for other jobs. There's no middle ground, really. If we get a Red Mage or a Mystic Knight, it will likely use only one stat, or have both stats on the equipment (entire new subset of gear required, like the heavy mage armor I've been pulling for since beta).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naunet

Those 30 attribute points are the useless feature, moreso than cross class abilities.

---

I would say that they designed to be useful; they are designed to lock players out of being two jobs at once.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dhex

That is a community issue - something they've done fairly well to structure within the game to avoid players being alienated because they made a choice that later turned out to be "the wrong" choice according to the community.

---

I don't necessarily blame the community, especially with the XP loss and what not in FF11. The game punished inefficiency pretty harshly, and the poor balance just exacerbated the problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trayes

Classes having 2-5 useful cross class skills is VERY boring.

Every DRG is 98% the same as every other DRG. There is no real choice when it comes to building your class so why even have the system in the game?

---

I don't follow the "norm" with my character, and it doesn't bother anyone.

I like to think the class system in this way, each Base Class is the same as a Class in other MMORPG, and each Job is like a talent tree of the Class. So when we have more Jobs coming out, the system will make more sense.
So people will have variation to their Base Class(using different Job), and not so much variation when using the same Job(choosing the same talent tree).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Or if you wanted to be RDM/NIN and melee. Nope, gotta be mage only. You may have the choice of possibilities, but ultimately the community will dictate which skills you should have.

---

Yeah this... When I started FFXI that's pretty much exactly what I wanted to do, then I ran into that issue in my first Yuhtunga leveling party killing mandys.

"RDM has crappy damage. Heals, refresh, and debuffs only. Enspells are for solo." I argued, they booted me and I was quite angry. So I switched to Dancer and got RDM up later on.

Community will usually trump mechanics when they're set up with that sort of freedom. If it's not optimal for the situation, it isn't worth it is how it went in XI.

Oh and another example was Warrior tanks being very rare. If you weren't a Paladin/WAR or a Ninja/WAR with both Utsusemis, you weren't a tank. WAR/anything would end up as a DD and off tank most of the time.

I added an example to the OP.