Warrior is OP

A warrior affects the play style of the healers so much that literally the only thing the healers can do is spam heal them. This is especially a problem with a SCH, a good SCH, will be micro managing their pet, healing when necessary, and throwing dot's on the boss (Mind you most SCH's are idiots and only heal). This is very easy to do with a PLD tank because you can rely on them to be able to take a hit or two while you cast Bio II or wait for a gcd. With a warrior tank you literally cannot stop spamming heals because the amount of damage they take takes twice as long to heal up as a pld.

People may say warriors do more damage, but in reality, with a good group the overall parties damage output will be less because you are preventing one or two people from doing damage because they are forced to spam heal.

I was going to take this thread seriously until I noticed there were no supporting specifics to the opinion in question and that it was just another terrible Juubi thread.

Nothing to see here folks. Abandon all hope, ye who enter this thread.

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Originally Posted by ReviiLagoon

People may say warriors do more damage, but in reality, with a good group the overall parties damage output will be less because you are preventing one or two people from doing damage because they are forced to spam heal.

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If you do nothing but spam heals on a war that is playing their job correctly, you're overhealing. Few of the healers I play with seem to have this problem and can dd just fine, in cleric's stance even, while keeping me alive :T

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Originally Posted by reality_check

People who don't understand healing mechanics and cry that the tank class is broken...

Edit:

Here, let me help you out because you are obviously the one who has no idea how the mechanics work.

Stoneskin and Cure II both cost 266 MP.

At my gear level (relic & full DL with two pieces of i90) my Cure II heals around 1400 HP.

On a similarly geared Paladin my Stoneskin probably will absorb 900-1k HP depending on how they've spent their attribute points.

On a similarly geared Warrior my Stoneskin will absorb EQUAL if not MORE HP than my Cure II. This makes stoneskin more powerful AND more efficient than Cure II. And I don't have to wait for the damage to happen. Stoneskin mechanics will always be more effective than healing because I can cast it BEFORE the damage happens.

Go play both healer classes if you're going to call me on ignorance of mechanics before you cry that Warrior sucks.

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Here is a reality_check for you:

WAR and PLD have THE SAME EFFECTIVE HP.

If a WAR has 4000 base HP and a PLD has 4000 Base HP, in their respective tanking stances you will have a WAR with 5000 HP (4000 * 1.25 from defiance), and a PLD at 4000 base HP w/ 20% reduction, or 5000 base HP.

The 20% reduction effectively works out to a 25% increase in healing efficiency as well.

So if your Cure II heals for 1400 HP, that's an "effective" 1750 healing for a PLD (or rather, your heal essentially mitigates 1750 hp worth of damage).

On a WAR, they will need 9722 HP's to get as much effective mitigation out of stoneskin as your heal is mitigating on the Paladin. I don't yet have all ilvl 90 gear, but I can pretty much guarantee that no one is going to get close to those numbers. For a Stoneskin to be more MP efficient on a WAR than a heal it would depend on how many wrath stacks they have. If your cure II is 1400, that means with 0 wrath you're talking 1400 mitigation, which would require ~7900 HP before stoneskin overtakes it, with the "average" wrath (i.e. dumping inner beast every cooldown) you would need ~8400 HP before stoneskin is more effective than a 1400 base cure II. And with full wrath you would need ~8900 HP befoire stoneskin overtakes cure II.

Oh and how about the Paladin? Stoneskin will have 18% of their HP, but the damage is reduced by 20%. So stoneskin is effectively 25% more efficient. Going back to our little example about 4000 base HP WAR and PLD. Stoneskin on a PLD will be 720 absorb shield, but since damage is reduced to 80%, you end up with 720/.8 = 900. For a WAR stoneskin on 5000 HP is going to be a 900 damage shield. Equally effective on both classes.

So now you're spending more MP per point of HP, and an additional .5 seconds after the GCD in order to cast stoneskin over Cure II, which is only going to be more effective in a situation where you would significantly overheal from Cure II, and in such a situation you should probably be using Cure I anyway.

You should learn basic math and class mechanics before you try to lecture anyone about anything.

P.S. this is without even looking at the plethora of other advantages PLD has over WAR too, such as better cooldowns, shield block, and Reduced monster STR via Rage of Halone.

A Good SCH does not need to micro manage their pet. And I've done battle with both WAR and PLD tanking. And you know what? I don't see much difference in the ability to heal either one an almost all instances including Titan. I might not be able to get a great number of DoT on during some phases in battle cause the need to prioritize HP being over 3-5k or they might get one shot killed. My problem is DPS overcompensating and trying to out DPS everyone, or when adds spawn they are still trying to take out the boss when the add need to be taken out swiftly.

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Originally Posted by Kewhi

I was going to take this thread seriously until I noticed there were no supporting specifics to the opinion in question and that it was just another terrible Juubi thread.

Nothing to see here folks. Abandon all hope, ye who enter this thread.

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Yeah I thought this would be a serious discussion, but I feel like its a troll to get peoples panties in a bunch.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

What? You're an idiot making a completely false statement, Scholar and White Mage are both accepted, all the DD are accepted, Warrior is not accepted.

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Found one! lol

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Originally Posted by Trife

Found one! lol

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Sorry I won't be engaging in discussion with someone who only has one 50 and incomplete cross class abilities, feel free to message me any time you've actually done anything in this game which gives you the right to discuss what you are currently partaking in

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

Here is a reality_check for you:

WAR and PLD have THE SAME EFFECTIVE HP.

blah blah blah I don't understand how healing mechanics work

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Reduced damage is not the same thing as increased healing taken. You've obviously never played a healer in any MMORPG. You can't just say that the Paladin has more HP because he takes X% less damage.

You cannot add the reduced damage from the paladin stance and pretend that it's the same as adding HP to the warrior when dealing with spells that heal based off of the max hp of the tank.

I'd continue this argument about how this game's version of last stand (whatever it's called) is infinitely better than sentinel but you're already on the band wagon that warriors suck. I'm siding with the game developers on this one.


TLDR:

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

The 20% reduction effectively works out to a 25% increase in healing efficiency as well.

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No.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

Sorry I won't be engaging in discussion with someone who only has one 50 and incomplete cross class abilities, feel free to message me any time you've actually done anything in this game which gives you the right to discuss what you are currently partaking in

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You're too cool for me man.... LOL